Peach King Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 What Tyrells were involved in the Purple Wedding, apart from Olenna? Margaery must have known since she was drinking from the same chalice. Quote Margaery, of course, smiling sweetly as she and Joffrey shared a drink from the great seven-sided wedding chalice. -ASOS, Tyrion VIII Quote Sansa felt as though her heart had lodged in her throat. The Queen of Thorns was so close she could smell the old woman's sour breath. Her gaunt thin fingers were pinching her wrist. To her other side, Margaery was listening as well. A shiver went through her. "A monster," she whispered, so tremulously she could scarcely hear her own voice. "Joffrey is a monster. He lied about the butcher's boy and made Father kill my wolf. When I displease him, he has the Kingsguard beat me. He's evil and cruel, my lady, it's so. And the queen as well." Lady Olenna Tyrell and her granddaughter exchanged a look. "Ah," said the old woman, "that's a pity." -ASOS, Sansa VIII The exchanged look also seems to indicate Margaery knew. Garlan must have known too, because I think he was the one who poisoned Joffrey. We seem him try to flatter and get in Tyrion's good graces the entire evening, probably to make Tyrion less suspicious of anything that would occur. He also chides Joffrey a lot, which isn't very smart if you're trying to get in good with the in-laws. After Joffrey cut up Tyrion's book with his sword: Quote “Your Grace,” Ser Garlan Tyrell said. “Perhaps you did not know. In all of Westeros there were but four copies of that book illuminated in Kaeth’s own hand.” When no one sang of Tyrion's deeds: Quote “No, my lady,” Ser Garlan said. “My lord of Lannister was made to do great deeds, not to sing of them. But for his chain and his wildfire, the foe would have been across the river. And if Tyrion’s wildlings had not slain most of Lord Stannis’s scouts, we would never have been able to take him unawares.” Quote His words made Tyrion feel absurdly grateful, and helped to mollify him. After Joffrey emptied the chalice over Tyrion's head: Quote Tyrion’s eyes were on fire. He dabbed at his face with the back of a sleeve and tried to blink the world back into clarity. “That was ill done, Your Grace,” he heard Ser Garlan say quietly. And he was near enough to the chalice to poison the wine: Quote Kneeling, Tyrion raised up the heavy cup, wondering if he was about to get a second bath. But Joffrey took the wedding chalice one- handed, drank deep, and set it on the table. “You can get up now, Uncle.” Quote His legs cramped as he tried to rise, and almost spilled him again. Tyrion had to grab hold of a chair to steady himself. Ser Garlan lent him a hand. Alternatively, his wife Leonette who was close by could have done it. Quote Lady Leonette giggled (at Tyrion's words). "Perhaps you should be a singer, my lord. You rhyme as well as this Galyeon." -ASOS, Tyrion VIII Did Loras know too? Quote "No," the Knight of Flowers said, unamused. "Sansa Stark was the poisoner. You all forget, my sister was drinking from that chalice as well. Sansa Stark was the only person in the hall who had reason to want Margaery dead, as well as the king. By poisoning the wedding cup, she could hope to kill both of them. And why did she run afterward, unless she was guilty?" -ASOS, Jaime VIII Was Loras genuinely angry in this scene, or trying to set Sansa up as a patsy? (Personally I think it's the former because I don't think Loras is all that disingenuous or cruel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaith Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Joffrey's death is the Purple Wedding, just fyi. Robb's was the Red Wedding. (Was thinking this topic would be something entirely else!) But, yeah, I think a lot of this stacks up. You can read a lot into what is going on in that ladies' breakfast on the morning of the wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach King Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Vaith said: Joffrey's death is the Purple Wedding, just fyi. Robb's was the Red Wedding. (Was thinking this topic would be something entirely else!) Oh, whoops, didn't even notice that. Thanks for the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 28 minutes ago, Peach King said: snip Just Olenna. She doesn't need anyone's help killing Tyrion by putting a poison crystal in his pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach King Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 No "the pie was poisoned" theories here please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Peach King said: No "the pie was poisoned" theories here please. Then you wont be discussing the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 None of the other Tyrells were in on the plan and therefor Olenna didn't poison the wine. The point of the inclusion of the chalice in the story is that it prevented Olenna from being able to poison the wine or she'd risk poisoning Marge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach King Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 I said: Quote No "the pie was poisoned" theories here please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Peach King said: I said: What was poisoned by who is a secondary matter. The only Tyrell involved in a poisoning plot during Joff's wedding was Olenna and she didn't proceed with it. That's what your topic is about. It's a misreading of the Tyrell's characters and interfamily dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach King Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 OK then who poisoned Joffrey. I should have said "no conspiracy theories" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Just now, Peach King said: OK then who poisoned Joffrey. I should have said "no conspiracy theories" too. That's another topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach King Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisdaw said: That's another topic. Then please make your own topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Just now, Peach King said: Then please make your own topic. I'm not too confident in who did poison Joff, or how. What I'm confident in is that Olenna didn't poison Joff, because for her to do so Marge and probably Mace would have had to be in on it, and that would be inconsistent with their characters and relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach King Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisdaw said: I'm not too confident in who did poison Joff, or how. What I'm confident in is that Olenna didn't poison Joff, because for her to do so Marge and probably Mace would have had to be in on it, and that would be inconsistent with their characters and relationships. Marge barely has a character. And why would Mace have to be in on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach King Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 This seems to be another indication Margaery knew, she's so entirely unconcerned with Joffrey being potentially abusive: Quote Sansa had once dreamt of having a sister like Margaery; beautiful and gentle, with all the world's graces at her command. Arya had been entirely unsatisfactory as sisters went. How can I let my sister marry Joffrey? she thought, and suddenly her eyes were full of tears. "Margaery, please," she said, "you mustn't." It was hard to get the words out. "You mustn't marry him. He's not like he seems, he's not. He'll hurt you." "I shouldn't think so." Margaery smiled confidently. "It's brave of you to warn me, but you need not fear. Joff's spoiled and vain and I don't doubt that he's as cruel as you say, but Father forced him to name Loras to his Kingsguard before he would agree to the match. I shall have the finest knight in the Seven Kingdoms protecting me night and day, as Prince Aemon protected Naerys. So our little lion had best behave, hadn't he?" She laughed, and said, "Come, sweet sister, let's race back to the river. It will drive our guards quite mad." -ASOS, Sansa VIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, Peach King said: Marge barely has a character. And why would Mace have to be in on it? He wouldn't necessarily have to be I suppose, but having given the chalice it places him in the thick of things. Marge gives her grounds in that passage for not being overly concerned with what Sansa tells her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I personally see no reason to involve Garlan. Margery is the only one who could poison the chalice and know she would not sip it again. It would be very easy for her to grab the chalice and slip it in after she took a sip. Everyone else can play dumb better by not being in on it. If anyone knows it would be Garlan, not Loras or Mace as I don't think they could be trusted. Poisoning the pie makes no sense, you simply could not guarantee what piece Joffrey would get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three-Fingered Pete Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Peach King said: Oh, whoops, didn't even notice that. Thanks for the heads up! You're not done yet: 2 hours ago, Peach King said: -AFFC, Tyrion VIII ???? 1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said: Then you wont be discussing the truth Oh no, not this again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Margaery definitely was in on it, as it's set up in the interactions with Sansa as quoted earlier in this thread, and logistically the scheme is too risky if she's not. Garlan, I don't know. Loras, definitely no. The plan itself is a workaround his hotheaded nature. There's no reason to involve him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherFromAnotherMother Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Looks like someone put a quarter in the ol' merry-go-round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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