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Alexander Leonard

Do you think Victarion Greyjoy is a psycopath?

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 2:53 PM, Ser Dood said:

GRRM already based Jaehaerys I off Trump.  I think Vic is more like HRC or maybe 'Beto' Robert Francis O'Rourke 

I hope this Joke! LOL Trump is based on Jaehaerys I what?

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He is stupid, brutal, arrogant, egocentric ... among other likewise qualities. Totally unpleasant. But within these limits, he is not mad or unstable.

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Truth be told I dislike the notion of Vic just being a psychopath because it detracts from the intriguing partsof his  charachterney is a perfect example of the destructive force of toxic masculinity. From having to murder his love after she was sullied by his brother, to his dismissal of the maestor being sexually assaulted by his crew, Victorien's perception on what he and other men must be able to do, often leads him and those around him suffering needlessly because of it. 

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Why do we ask questions like this when most of us are so uninformed. Vid is just a brute soldier following the life he has been taught, as far as I can tell he has done nothing unnacceptable by his culture for personal gain, fun or any other reason, he like many others is a slave to his own honour, he lives in a horrible culture.

 

He’s not a Rorge or a Biter, men who live in a different culture with a set of morals that they actively go against whenever they please. I don’t know if they are psycho’s. Euron is a man who will break any and all laws for personal gain, fun, or any other reason that pleases him at that time, I don’t tend to use the word psycho, but with Enron I do. 

Edited by FitzChivalry Fartseer

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:42 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

It was, which makes it all the more psycho that Vic killed her 

Stop equating doing really bad things with being acting like psychopath. It’s not that simple.

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On 1/31/2019 at 8:12 PM, Dofs said:

Just because someone does something awful, it doesn't mean he is a psychopath. Victarion is simply a thick-headed man that was raised in an extremely toxic culture. And that's all there is to it.

This, and add to it the fact that Vic isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer. 

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21 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

This, and add to it the fact that Vic isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer. 

Well, that's what I meant by "thick-headed" :)

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7 minutes ago, Dofs said:

Well, that's what I meant by "thick-headed" :)

I know. Just felt the need to emphasise... because good old Vic is really, truly very stupid. :lol:

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5 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Stop equating doing really bad things with being acting like psychopath. It’s not that simple.

I am aware, and in past replies I have gone over what makes him a psycho. This is just one of the examples. 

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33 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I am aware, and in past replies I have gone over what makes him a psycho. This is just one of the examples. 

No you haven’t. You’ve just pointed to him doing things you find immoral, Being a psychopath is more than just “doing x really bad thing”. Most of the violent behavior that Vic displays is accordance to what his society thinks is acceptable and even admirable. Killing off salt-wife after she’s been sullied by her husband’s own kin is expected in this extremely militaristic and misogynistic society. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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Nah Vic isn't a psychopath, but I think that Euron is. Vic is more of a violent halfwit.

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21 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Stop equating doing really bad things with being acting like psychopath. It’s not that simple.

Of course it isn't that simple. That is just one of the many examples of how he is psycho 

 

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2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Of course it isn't that simple. That is just one of the many examples of how he is psycho 

 

No it isn't and again your other examples is just pointing him doing really bad things as proof of him being a psychopath like you're doing here.

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44 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

No it isn't and again your other examples is just pointing him doing really bad things as proof of him being a psychopath like you're doing here.

I showed examples of his lack of a moral compass, his cold rationailes of violence and killing and a profound disconnect to reality. Your inability to see this does not mean I am wrong. 

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59 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I showed examples of his lack of a moral compass, his cold rationailes of violence and killing and a profound disconnect to reality. Your inability to see this does not mean I am wrong. 

Here's some of Examples you provided. He(an ironborn warrior, raised in an environment where corpse-looting,rape and human sacrifice is applauded) killed a lot of people and likes killing his enemies. Wow shocking. Based on this criteria just about every raider-society's warriors are psychopaths.  Victorien plans to kill Daenarys' husband and take her to wife-something totally  permissible in ironborn culture. All the salt-wives the ironborn were not unwed upon their interaction with the raiders, Some, would have had husbands who were butchered by the ironborn Raiders. He followed Euron after being humiliated and hurt by him. Euron is Victorien's elder brother and King. Such things are demanded in his society and it's clear he was reluctant to fight Euron initially because of that.  Very non-psychopathic given a psychopath typically would feel no hesitation in destroying those who hurt them immediately. And he later decides to betray Euron who again has been humiliating him for years. He killed a salt-wife after she's been "sullied" by his kin. Given the nature of his society honor demanded little less than such a reaction. It's gross, misogynic, and Immoral in my eyes. But in the eyes of the ironborn it was permissible. He sacrificed a god outside his culture. You forget to mention how. He did it in such a way to where either the drowned God or the red God would decide who gets it-absolving himself from blasphemy in his mind. If he was a psychopath he would not care about being remotely much less defend the drowned God after the red priest mocked it.

If Victorien was a psychopath, he would not feel shame about thinking of killing his kin in a holy place, or feel shame about killing who is basically little more than a concubine in his society, or moral indignation at the type of slavery practiced in Essos. Your examples are flawed. You've provided instances of him doing really bad things, concluded he has no moral framework, then prounced him a psychopath. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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31 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Here's some of Examples you provided. He(an ironborn warrior, raised in an environment where corpse-looting,rape and human sacrifice is applauded) killed a lot of people and likes killing his enemies. Wow shocking. Based on this criteria just about every raider-society's warriors are psychopaths.  Victorien plans to kill Daenarys' husband and take her to wife-something totally  permissible in ironborn culture. All the salt-wives the ironborn were not unwed upon their interaction with the raiders, Some, would have had husbands who were butchered by the ironborn Raiders. He followed Euron after being humiliated and hurt by him. Euron is Victorien's elder brother and King. Such things are demanded in his society and it's clear he was reluctant to fight Euron initially because of that.  Very non-psychopathic given a psychopath typically would feel no hesitation in destroying those who hurt them immediately. And he later decides to betray Euron who again has been humiliating him for years. He killed a salt-wife after she's been "sullied" by his kin. Given the nature of his society honor demanded little less than such a reaction. It's gross, misogynic, and Immoral in my eyes. But in the eyes of the ironborn it was permissible. He sacrificed a god outside his culture. You forget to mention how. He did it in such a way to where either the drowned God or the red God would decide who gets it-absolving himself from blasphemy in his mind. If he was a psychopath he would not care about being remotely much less defend the drowned God after the red priest mocked it.

If Victorien was a psychopath, he would not feel shame about thinking of killing his kin in a holy place, or feel shame about killing who is basically little more than a concubine in his society, or moral indignation at the type of slavery practiced in Essos. Your examples are flawed. You've provided instances of him doing really bad things, concluded he has no moral framework, then prounced him a psychopath. 

your concept of cultural relativism had blinded to you the nature of vic

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23 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

your concept of cultural relativism had blinded to you the nature of vic

 Your concept of a psychopath is as simplistic as bad man doing bad things. It’s wrong. Based of how you’ve laid out of what is a psychopath near every warrior in a raider-society is a psychopath. All the ironborn warriors are just psychopaths. No further analysis needed.

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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Given this topic has gone round in a rather sterile circle I'll link the results of a few seconds of google searching:

https://www.learning-mind.com/hare-psychopathy-checklist/

As has been said before, these fit Euron rather well and Vic not at all well.  The checklist is a little long but the top 12 scream Euron.  Vic is a brutal man but however unpleasant we find him he is quite honourable and conventional in the context of his society and has none of the guile, dishonesty or darkly manipulative and sinister traits that Euron has.  He would have lived and died as Balon's loyal and dutiful right hand man...if Euron had not murdered their brother for personal gain.

To put it another way: Euron comes close to being the Ironborn's Ramsay Bolton (Roose, perhaps more accurately) and Vic comes close to being the Ironborn's Stannis Barratheon (or perhaps Ned Stark).  One is an outlier of the culture and it's values, the other is an exemplar of it.

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