Poll: Is Daario actually Euron?

[Dorian Martell's son]

10 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

Are there any unpopular theories you DO support?

R+L=J 
 

[Dorian Martell's son]

10 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

Are there any unpopular theories you DO support?

If there isn't any real support in the books I don't really call them theories but my favorite is that Dawn, the runic bronze armor of the Royces and winterfell were all possessions of the last hero who divided them up between his family and spread them out in case the others returned. 
In terms of real theories, I believe that Rhaegar gravely wounded Bob by knocking him off his horse, then the prince dismounted out of a sense of honor before that physically stronger Bob killed him and he fell to his knees in the river.
Rhaegar was a tourney champion and bob was no good with a lance. I'm heading off to work so I don't have time to locate the quotes but we have Jorah telling Dany that Rhaegar fought nobly, he fought honorably and he died. Then later I believe it was when Belwas was standing while fighting the mounted Yunkai champion. Barristan said that an honorable man would dismount  

[Leo of House Cartel]

To the OP, I say No. Naharis actually turning out to be a disguised Crow's Eye seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps Daario is actually working for Euron - the Tyroshi is a professional sellsword, after all, but we don't really have anything strong to base this on.

I've seen the idea that Greyjoy could be skinchanging into Daario, and while I find it cool, again, the evidence is pretty lacking. 

With his gold tooth, dyed hair and beard, brightly coloured finery and of course, his beloved golden wantons, I could see why one could associate Daario with hidden identities. All the bright colours and glimmering gold does give me a kind of "maybe this dude's wearing a glamour" vibe. Hell, Tyroshi hair dye in general does add a certain air of uncertainty to their overall culture, and his appearance does bare some similarities to Illyrio Mopatis, another character associated with secrets and hidden agendas.

Still, if we're going down the route of the currently imprisoned Stormcrow being more than he seems, I think this theory has a lot more textual support than the Euron/Daario idea.

 

 

[Starkz]

No but he and Euron are more alike than not and share a lot of parallels.. perhaps foreshadowing Dany and his union.

[kissdbyfire]

21 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

Do you support "Sandor = Gravedigger"?  Because (if we ignore the time + distance objection, surely a stronger case can be made for "Daario=Euron", than for "Sandor= Gravedigger".

Nope. 

Where’s @Morte with his multi-language “noes”?

I don’t even think your little list supports Daario = Euron at all. Yes, the two have a few things in common; Euron is Daario turned up to 11 and w/ a much crueler side to him. I think those “similarities” are there just to hint at a possible relationship between Dany and Euron, and not to make us think that the two are one and the same, 

Now, Sandor being the Gravedigger at the QI has several actual proper clues.

 

[Platypus Rex]

8 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

To the OP, I say No. Naharis actually turning out to be a disguised Crow's Eye seems a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps Daario is actually working for Euron - the Tyroshi is a professional sellsword, after all, but we don't really have anything strong to base this on.

I've seen the idea that Greyjoy could be skinchanging into Daario, and while I find it cool, again, the evidence is pretty lacking. 

To my mind, the last 2 theories are merely clumsy compromises, in response to the time/distance objection.  Nobody actually believes them, AFAIK.  Once you accept the compromise, you find yourself with little or no evidence; most of the reasons for exploring the theory in the first place go up in smoke.

The original basis of the theory primarily consists of the fact that Daario and Euron look and act pretty much the same, once we overlook the superficial fact that Daario is dressed up like a pimp, and Euron is dressed up like a pirate.

The time/distance objection can be addressed and has been addressed.  That's why detractors of the theory (who have lost this argument before) are reduced to arguing that defenders of the theory should not be allowed to address the objection, because GRRM suggested (in another context) to put away stop-watch and ruler.  This is their defense, now.  These brave warriors will do battle only on condition that their opponents hands are tied.

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

No.

[Platypus Rex]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

"I don’t even think your little list supports Daario = Euron at all. Yes, the two have a few things in common; Euron is Daario turned up to 11 and w/ a much crueler side to him." 

If Daario wasn't slow-playing his game, it would not be much of a surprise.  Even so, he does not make a huge secret of his cruelty.

He does cover up a little bit, though.  When Daario is caught (allegedly) cutting down those children to spare Dany's feelings … what do you think he was REALLY doing?

"I think those “similarities” are there just to hint at a possible relationship between Dany and Euron, and not to make us think that the two are one and the same,"

If there were not arguable evidence for the theory, you would have no need to propose an alternative hypothesis explaining the same facts.

"Now, Sandor being the Gravedigger at the QI has several actual proper clues."

Because you believe the theory, you call them "proper clues".  If you rejected the theory, you would use other words, just as you do for Daario = Euron.  The quality of the clues or red herrings, or whatever you want to call them, would remain the same.

[Platypus Rex]

Another parallel I failed to mention:  neither Daario nor Euron wear underpants.

[Leo of House Cartel]

10 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

To my mind, the last 2 theories are merely clumsy compromises, in response to the time/distance objection.  Nobody actually believes them, AFAIK.  Once you accept the compromise, you find yourself with little or no evidence; most of the reasons for exploring the theory in the first place go up in smoke.

The original basis of the theory primarily consists of the fact that Daario and Euron look and act pretty much the same, once we overlook the superficial fact that Daario is dressed up like a pimp, and Euron is dressed up like a pirate.

The time/distance objection can be addressed and has been addressed.  That's why detractors of the theory (who have lost this argument before) are reduced to arguing that defenders of the theory should not be allowed to address the objection, because GRRM suggested (in another context) to put away stop-watch and ruler.  This is their defense, now.  These brave warriors will do battle only on condition that their opponents hands are tied.

For me, I have no issue with the time/distance arguments, I simply haven't seen enough evidence to back the theory up/give me pause. My own views on Euron's motivations also don't really line up with the ideas proposed in the theory.

One question I always have is why would Euron leave Mereen for two months if he really was Daario? The relationship with Dany was going well enough, and Naharis was clearly getting in her head. Why then would the disguised Crow's Eye essentially abandon all his good work and sail to Westeros? For the Seastone Chair, perhaps? Doubt it, Greyjoy has already made it clear that it's the Iron Throne he wants, and wouldn't he find it easier to claim said throne if Dany and her Dragons were backing him up? If Crow's Eye really was disguised as the "Wielder of Wantons", why risk the whole operation by sailing back to Westeros and risking the potential wrath of any number of enemies Euron has made.

In conjunction with the above, if Euron actually is Daario, how exactly would he break it to Danaerys? Tell Dany "I've been lying to you about everything for months. I'm not this Tyroshi that you might have been falling in love with, I'm actually a slave owning pirate King (cause I know how much you love chains!) who is pushing 50 and plans to conquer the Kingdom which is your's by birthright. How about we get married and you give me a dragon?" 

Not only that, but consider the Dragonbinder horn. If Euron=Daario/the horn really does bind dragons, why wouldn't he just sail back to Slavers Bay on the Silence and use his Naharis costume and relationship to Dany to gain access to the dragons and have the horn blown/bind a dragon to his will? Again, this would be more beneficial to his lust for the IT than harrying the coasts with his Iron Men and would also avoid the hastle of sending Victarion, who killed his own wife due to Euron's betrayal, thus making him open to screwing the Crow's Eye over and claiming a dragon for himself/dropping the priceless horn overboard.

[divica]

1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

To my mind, the last 2 theories are merely clumsy compromises, in response to the time/distance objection.  Nobody actually believes them, AFAIK.  Once you accept the compromise, you find yourself with little or no evidence; most of the reasons for exploring the theory in the first place go up in smoke.

The original basis of the theory primarily consists of the fact that Daario and Euron look and act pretty much the same, once we overlook the superficial fact that Daario is dressed up like a pimp, and Euron is dressed up like a pirate.

The time/distance objection can be addressed and has been addressed.  That's why detractors of the theory (who have lost this argument before) are reduced to arguing that defenders of the theory should not be allowed to address the objection, because GRRM suggested (in another context) to put away stop-watch and ruler.  This is their defense, now.  These brave warriors will do battle only on condition that their opponents hands are tied.

The time/distance objection can't be adressed! 

With aeron's latest chapter it becomes impossible for daario and euron to be the same person. 

You can argue all you want, but in the IB timeline we know when victarion leaves for mereen and from aeron we know that euron has been with him in several instances since victarion left.

On the other hand, since a some place in ADwD daario's whereabouts are known and there is even a ship blockade during a period of time. Without teleportation it would be impossible for them to be the same person.

If there is a timeline that allows euron to appear near aeron during his captivity and be near danny in dance, please show it. And I don t mean some timetable extremely well done that proves it is possible. A simpler one that shows it might be possible is fine.

[BalerionTheCat]

No. Magic Euron has nothing in common with petty mercenary Daarion. Unlikely, if not impossible. No purpose. Dumb idea. I really would not find it smart of GRRM if it was true. I'm OK with things like Lemore=Ashara, or Quaithe=Shiera Seastar. But not this one.

[Platypus Rex]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 9:02 PM, divica said:

"The time/distance objection can't be adressed! 

With aeron's latest chapter it becomes impossible for daario and euron to be the same person. 

You can argue all you want, but in the IB timeline we know when victarion leaves for mereen and from aeron we know that euron has been with him in several instances since victarion left.

On the other hand, since a some place in ADwD daario's whereabouts are known and there is even a ship blockade during a period of time. Without teleportation it would be impossible for them to be the same person."

The details are deliberately vague.  Ask yourself why GRRM keeps emphasizing that Aeron has lost track of time, and has periods of insanity when he remembers nothing.  And then consider the implications of this.  And ask yourself where and when Euron picked up that red priest and those warlocks of Qarth.  Did they just happen to be sailing by the Arbor?

Daario has gotten past the Yunkai at least twice to reach Dany in Meereen.  It does not matter how.  He did it.  Yes, but IF HE WAS EURON how did he get past the Yunkai?  Who cares.  If he is Euron, he would be even more capable than Daario.  He's got magic.

"If there is a timeline that allows euron to appear near aeron during his captivity and be near danny in dance, please show it."

I hesitate to do this, not because it is impossible, but because there are too many possibilities.  And I seem to recall that when people point out the timeline problems with the standard version of R+L=J, the response is "GRRM sucks at timelines".  So I don't see why the theory should stand or fall by my ability, or inability, to work out a timeline from impossibly vague evidence.  GRRM kept moaning about the Myreenese knot.  Maybe he never truly solved it.   But if Daario/Euron's comings and goings are not part of the problem, why was it so hard?

But okay, I'll throw something out without necessarily committing to it, this weekend.  Maybe I'll give you 2 or 3 timelines so I don't have to commit to the one.

[Platypus Rex]

Also this:  Anyone who thinks Daario would just meekly walk off to be a prisoner of the Yunkai is not quite thinking straight.  Even if Daario is just Daario, he would never do this.  The fact that he seems to meekly accept being sent as a hostage, only proves he's got something up his sleeve.

Which leaves us with not one, not two, but three prolonged absences, where Daario is not with Dany in Meereen, and we have no direct way of confirming that he is in fact where people suppose him to be.   The remarkable thing about Daario and Meereen is that he is almost never there.

[Platypus Rex]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 7:52 PM, Leo of House Cartel said:

For me, I have no issue with the time/distance arguments, I simply haven't seen enough evidence to back the theory up/give me pause. My own views on Euron's motivations also don't really line up with the ideas proposed in the theory.

One question I always have is why would Euron leave Mereen for two months if he really was Daario? The relationship with Dany was going well enough, and Naharis was clearly getting in her head. Why then would the disguised Crow's Eye essentially abandon all his good work and sail to Westeros? For the Seastone Chair, perhaps? Doubt it, Greyjoy has already made it clear that it's the Iron Throne he wants, and wouldn't he find it easier to claim said throne if Dany and her Dragons were backing him up? If Crow's Eye really was disguised as the "Wielder of Wantons", why risk the whole operation by sailing back to Westeros and risking the potential wrath of any number of enemies Euron has made.

In conjunction with the above, if Euron actually is Daario, how exactly would he break it to Danaerys? Tell Dany "I've been lying to you about everything for months. I'm not this Tyroshi that you might have been falling in love with, I'm actually a slave owning pirate King (cause I know how much you love chains!) who is pushing 50 and plans to conquer the Kingdom which is your's by birthright. How about we get married and you give me a dragon?" 

Not only that, but consider the Dragonbinder horn. If Euron=Daario/the horn really does bind dragons, why wouldn't he just sail back to Slavers Bay on the Silence and use his Naharis costume and relationship to Dany to gain access to the dragons and have the horn blown/bind a dragon to his will? Again, this would be more beneficial to his lust for the IT than harrying the coasts with his Iron Men and would also avoid the hastle of sending Victarion, who killed his own wife due to Euron's betrayal, thus making him open to screwing the Crow's Eye over and claiming a dragon for himself/dropping the priceless horn overboard.

I'm not a fan of the style of argument that asks a million questions, to which no-one knows the answer, prefaces each question, with "If Daario is Euron", and then implies that if I cannot write and extensive work of satisfying fan fiction that answers all your intellectual curiosity and artistic expectations, the theory must be wrong.

Why did Daario leave Dany for months?  Because Dany sent him to the lamb men, on a journey that should last months.  Maybe this suited Daario, for reasons of his own, but this is pure speculation.  No, I mean, IF DAARIO WAS EURON, why did he leave Dany for months?  Same answer.  Why did Euron leave Dany in Slaver's Bay and sail for the Iron Islands to claim the Seastone Chair?  I don't know but that's what he did; he was evidently in the Summer Sea when he first heard of Dany, since he knows she is in Slaver's bay before anyone else in Westeros knows she has been in Qarth, and he's the guy with the fast ship.  No, I mean IF EURON WAS DAARIO why did he do this?  Same answer: I don't know.  Why did Euron send Victarion with the Dragonbinder horn instead of using it himself?  I don't know and I'm really curious to see what happens; I don't know how the horn works or what it does; somehow I don't think it will work out for Vic.  No, I mean IF DAARIO IS EURON, why does he do this?  Uh … same answer.

[SFDanny]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:34 PM, Platypus Rex said:

This is a poll.  Please answer "Yes" or "No" to the following question:

Are Daario Naharis (Dany's lover in Slaver's Bay) and Euron Greyjoy (now king of the Iron Islands) one and the same person?

No.

[Leo of House Cartel]

8 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

I'm not a fan of the style of argument that asks a million questions, to which no-one knows the answer, prefaces each question, with "If Daario is Euron", and then implies that if I cannot write and extensive work of satisfying fan fiction that answers all your intellectual curiosity and artistic expectations, the theory must be wrong.

Why did Daario leave Dany for months?  Because Dany sent him to the lamb men, on a journey that should last months.  Maybe this suited Daario, for reasons of his own, but this is pure speculation.  No, I mean, IF DAARIO WAS EURON, why did he leave Dany for months?  Same answer.  Why did Euron leave Dany in Slaver's Bay and sail for the Iron Islands to claim the Seastone Chair?  I don't know but that's what he did; he was evidently in the Summer Sea when he first heard of Dany, since he knows she is in Slaver's bay before anyone else in Westeros knows she has been in Qarth, and he's the guy with the fast ship.  No, I mean IF EURON WAS DAARIO why did he do this?  Same answer: I don't know.  Why did Euron send Victarion with the Dragonbinder horn instead of using it himself?  I don't know and I'm really curious to see what happens; I don't know how the horn works or what it does; somehow I don't think it will work out for Vic.  No, I mean IF DAARIO IS EURON, why does he do this?  Uh … same answer.

I do agree that the multi question style of argument can often be an obtrusive (if not toxic) way for one to approach a theory they don't believe. I think we've all seen many a creative debate on this forum (and many, many others) turn into an absolute shit show due to a mass of ideas and arguments getting bandied about in a less than polite way - I hope my previous line of questioning didn't come across as abrasive, but these questions are some of the main reasons I don't prescribe to the idea of Euron being Daario in disguise.

Now don't get me wrong, while I would be open to E=D being legit, I guess I've just never read a compelling enough list of arguments in favour of the idea. As I said earlier, my own theories on Euron don't currently align with the proposal, but that could certainly change if I were to see a body of evidence which "set my spider sense to tingling".

[the trees have eyes]

What's the point of the OP reigniting a sterile and tedious debate over an implausible (read joke) theory and then arguing with every single respondent?  Only one person in this entire thread finds any merit in the proposition and they are flogging a dead horse.

If you want to believe something you will but if you're a Euron = Daario believer or a 9/11 truther you're just inhabiting a different reality to most people and there's no meaningful discussion to be had. 

The simple question that needs to be answered to people's satisfaction before they even consider the question seriously is: why should we for a moment entertain the notion that Euron and Daario are not two separate individuals?  Your list of superficial similarities is underwhelming.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On 2/2/2019 at 12:34 AM, Platypus Rex said:

This is a poll.  Please answer "Yes" or "No" to the following question:

Are Daario Naharis (Dany's lover in Slaver's Bay) and Euron Greyjoy (now king of the Iron Islands) one and the same person?

No.

[Iris Purpurea]

No way.