The First Law- But a Second Reread (or Third, or Fourth or Fi.....) spoilers for First Law books

[C.T. Phipps]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Meh. There is depth however. The second Ambassador Glocka tortures really seemed to genuinely want and showed indicationthere was a strong sentiment that the Church and state need to separate among many of the empire’s elite.

I think that may be reaching. Mind you, it's just the Prophet wants to destroy the Union because he knows Bayaz is an extremist monster and the real master of the Union.

So separation of Church and State don't mean anything good here as monarchy certainly isn't better.

[SkynJay]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Bayaz has one apprentice at a time (that we know of at least).  That's pretty different from hundreds. 

While still different from hundreds I think it is safe to say three people on Bayaz's side eat; Caz is an eater and once bowed to Bayaz (before refusing to bow anymore).  And it is strongly implied Bayaz himself eats at the end of Heroes. 

[C.T. Phipps]

Yes, both the Prophet and Bayaz are both utterly happy with whatever methods give them an advantage.

1. The Prophet uses the hundreds of apprentices

2. Bayaz uses a nuke.

They're both scum.

[Varysblackfyre321]

5 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I think that may be reaching. Mind you, it's just the Prophet wants to destroy the Union because he knows Bayaz is an extremist monster and the real master of the Union.

So separation of Church and State don't mean anything good here as monarchy certainly isn't better.

I disagree. Separation of church and State is always a good thing in it of itself. It rapidly decreases the chance of religious minorities being persecuted. A flat-out monarchy still has it’s problems to be sure, and government persecution of minorities can still happen-but making the Ghurkish empire less subservient to one religion, would be a proper step in bettering the country. 

But my main point is that the Ghurkish far from being portrayed as all religious extremists were shown to have great variance in terms of their view of government and religion. 

 

[BigFatCoward]

Finished book 2, there is a lot to be getting on with in the last 1/4 of the book.  Might have to reassess how much i think it would cost to make it into a TV show. 

loved the fact that the truly fierce amongst the northmen recognised dogmans worth and took him as their chief. 

Sad at Cathil's demise, though better free than in the Angland penal colony. 

[The hairy bear]

My notes for chapters 39-50 of TBI:

Things I loved:

• The first two chapters that combine the three main POVs are immense. I love how well the three views of the events are combined flawlessly to provide the reader with the greater picture, and offering very different insights.

Things I disliked:

• I found that the chapter inside the House of the Maker was a disappointment. After all that building up, nothing interesting happens. This should have been the climax of the book, but I found it a real lackluster.
• I don't think that Forley's murder is compatible with Calder''s personality as depicted later (both in the Heroes, or as a young boy in Sharp Ends). It's a useless act of violence and cruelty, that gets him no gain. He also takes the decision to behead him with an unnecessary rush, immediately after he willingly presents to him and before capturing Threetrees. I assume that, being 15 at the time, he could have been cowed by councilors like Bad-Enough. But if so, that's something that should have been addressed in The Heroes, IMO.
• Forgive me if I'm forgetting some later plot development, but I really can't see why Goyle disrupts Glokta's investigation in the University, with the ridiculous claim that the body had been eaten by dogs. I also can't see why Glokta accepts. If he had been named Inquisitor Exempt just to be able to operate out of Kalyne's oversight, why does he bow to Kalayne's successor?
• Similarly, there's no real justification for the completely disproportionate attack on Ferro and Logen. Even though the action scene is thrilling and the first apparition of the Bloody Nine is superbly written, the whole assault seems like a weak attempt to fabricate a climax.

Random thoughts

• It seems that both the Emperor and the Prophet are looking for Ferro, and putting all efforts to it. I wonder why is that. If she is only one slave, she must have done something really huge to have an army of soldiers and eaters specifically looking for her.
• Also, why would a scarred, unruly and troublesome slave would be assigned to serve Uthman? Could she have been a sex slave with her disfigured face (it is suggested that she fucked the Emperor).
• How is that the Eaters know and smell Maljinn but not Yulwei?
• Yulwi seems unaffected (not even tired) by the use of magic after killing the two eaters. In comparison, after helping Jezal to win (which would seem an easier kind of magic), he is seen trembling, pale, with sunken eyes, and with big drops of sweat running down his face.
• How Logen and Ferro learned the Aduan language?
• What happened to Jaremias?
• Bayaz is a deranged sadist. No one had asked him about Tolomei, but he brings up the matter and casually says "No one could have deserved that less than she. There never was a more innocent spirit."
• Nice to see Vallamir being as useless as he'll be in The Heroes. Odds are that we'll see him in ALH, perhaps even as a General.
• Could Euz be the Kantic god?

[SkynJay]

There is s lot there but one answer I have is Ferro cut up her own face, so I am guessing she was a real prize before that.

My pet theory is she was some sort of political prisoner made slave; daughter of a lord or something of that nature.

[C.T. Phipps]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:47 PM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I disagree. Separation of church and State is always a good thing in it of itself.

I think the Soviet Union, North Korea, and other places can show otherwise or at least the replacements aren't any better.

But OT.

[C.T. Phipps]

5 hours ago, SkynJay said:

There is s lot there but one answer I have is Ferro cut up her own face, so I am guessing she was a real prize before that.

My pet theory is she was some sort of political prisoner made slave; daughter of a lord or something of that nature.

Well Logen certainly think Ferro has a lot going on.

[Varysblackfyre321]

6 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I think the Soviet Union, North Korea, and other places can show otherwise or at least the replacements aren't any better.

But OT.

Yeah, the main reason those states are terrible is because they kept religion out of government. 

[red snow]

I guess the prophet and emperor were looking for Ferro for  much the same reason Yulwei was because of her bloodline allowing her to interact with ancient weapons and the like? They dropped the ball if they felt torturing her was the way to control her though - unless that was part of the process of creating her?

I get the feeling Yulwei maybe stores his magic up more/has more to spare while Bayaz spent his cache a long time ago and therefore feels the effects more. The two of them pretty much confirm this when talking about their being a price for using magic. I thought it was quite interesting how Bayaz outright states that magic is breaking the first law as it's communicating the first law.

A nice nod that Ferro picks out Bayaz as the most dangerous person in the room where Logen, Quai (still silent) and Yulwei are.

I had forgotten that West beat the shit out of Ardee. That really does lower my opinion of him. Yet weirdly I found it quite touching how Glokta responded to realising West had tried to remain his friend but his mother kept turning him away. It was surprising how positively Glokta responded and it shows how a lot of the shitty things he has done/become is out of a sense of lonlieness and lashing out at the world. It makes me really hope for once that a character gets some peace/joy after the trilogy as I think his adopted child could really change him in terms of how he sees his place in the world.

I agree with others thinking Calder's killing of Forley was at odds with the version in Heroes. However this could have been the mistake that changed him as in a way he unwittingly brought about his father's demise with that one rash action. I'd need to read heroes again to know whether it's justified there. Maybe Bethod or some of the wiser named men tore him a new one for such a stupid act? I don't think Bethod would have killed him - at worst he'd have captured him and used him for bait. Bethod would know that killing Forley would achieve nothing other than make his enemies hate him more.

 

 

[C.T. Phipps]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Yeah, the main reason those states are terrible is because they kept religion out of government. 

You want some hay with that straw?

[Varysblackfyre321]

23 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

You want some hay with that straw?

Please, it’s you who’ve strawmanned me. Your response to me saying separation of church and state is good in it of itself was just to point to some states that were secular and were bad, as if my argument was separation =great state. I fully awknowledge in a previous post a state that has separation of church and state doesn’t mean a society won’t do deplorable things or be successful. 

[C.T. Phipps]

I'm just kidding around anyway, not attempting to seriously discuss the issue.

[red snow]

Best line from ferro by far in book 1 was telling longfoot to "shut the fuck up, c**t". She echoed my thoughts and feelings very succinctly.

[BigFatCoward]

36 minutes ago, red snow said:

Best line from ferro by far in book 1 was telling longfoot to "shut the fuck up, cunt". She echoed my thoughts and feelings very succinctly.

Sometimes, only the C word will do.

Started book 3, where is everyone else?  I might leave it for a week or 2 for everyone to catch up. 

[SeanF]

20 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

My notes for chapters 39-50 of TBI:

Things I loved:

• The first two chapters that combine the three main POVs are immense. I love how well the three views of the events are combined flawlessly to provide the reader with the greater picture, and offering very different insights.

Things I disliked:

• I found that the chapter inside the House of the Maker was a disappointment. After all that building up, nothing interesting happens. This should have been the climax of the book, but I found it a real lackluster.
• I don't think that Forley's murder is compatible with Calder''s personality as depicted later (both in the Heroes, or as a young boy in Sharp Ends). It's a useless act of violence and cruelty, that gets him no gain. He also takes the decision to behead him with an unnecessary rush, immediately after he willingly presents to him and before capturing Threetrees. I assume that, being 15 at the time, he could have been cowed by councilors like Bad-Enough. But if so, that's something that should have been addressed in The Heroes, IMO.
• Forgive me if I'm forgetting some later plot development, but I really can't see why Goyle disrupts Glokta's investigation in the University, with the ridiculous claim that the body had been eaten by dogs. I also can't see why Glokta accepts. If he had been named Inquisitor Exempt just to be able to operate out of Kalyne's oversight, why does he bow to Kalayne's successor?
• Similarly, there's no real justification for the completely disproportionate attack on Ferro and Logen. Even though the action scene is thrilling and the first apparition of the Bloody Nine is superbly written, the whole assault seems like a weak attempt to fabricate a climax.

Random thoughts

• It seems that both the Emperor and the Prophet are looking for Ferro, and putting all efforts to it. I wonder why is that. If she is only one slave, she must have done something really huge to have an army of soldiers and eaters specifically looking for her.
• Also, why would a scarred, unruly and troublesome slave would be assigned to serve Uthman? Could she have been a sex slave with her disfigured face (it is suggested that she fucked the Emperor).
• How is that the Eaters know and smell Maljinn but not Yulwei?
• Yulwi seems unaffected (not even tired) by the use of magic after killing the two eaters. In comparison, after helping Jezal to win (which would seem an easier kind of magic), he is seen trembling, pale, with sunken eyes, and with big drops of sweat running down his face.
• How Logen and Ferro learned the Aduan language?
• What happened to Jaremias?
• Bayaz is a deranged sadist. No one had asked him about Tolomei, but he brings up the matter and casually says "No one could have deserved that less than she. There never was a more innocent spirit."
• Nice to see Vallamir being as useless as he'll be in The Heroes. Odds are that we'll see him in ALH, perhaps even as a General.
• Could Euz be the Kantic god?

Actually, I think it's quite compatible.  Calder's a brash young man trying to show how hard he is, in front of his father's carls.  Calder does express regret for the murder to the Dogman in The Heroes.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Actually, I think it's quite compatible.  Calder's a brash young man trying to show how hard he is, in front of his father's carls.  Calder does express regret for the murder to the Dogman in The Heroes.

I was thinking it was probably touched on in the heroes. 15 year olds - especially spoiled princes are prone to mistakes. It's weird how i remembered calder being present at the scene with forley head. As it is we don't know how much was the carl's vs calder. Probably a mixture of the two.

 

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Sometimes, only the C word will do.

Started book 3, where is everyone else?  I might leave it for a week or 2 for everyone to catch up. 

I won't be hitting book 3 until April. My hope is to read other things between the scheduled "next book".

Apologies for quoting the "c word" - i'll amend if it's breaking forum rules.

[red snow]

I've finished "the blade itself". If anything I think I enjoyed it a lot more the second time around. It was fun picking out all the clues that play a big part at the end of the trilogy. I think my first review still stands that not a lot happens in this book and rather than a finale it's all set up for book 2 which is very frustrating and risky for a first novel. I know I read a couple of books before going back to the series as I simply wasn't sure whether anything more was going to occur in the next book.

Thankfully his stand-alones and Shattered Seas series has shown Joe can now provide each book with enough punch to be satisfying in its own right. I certainly hope the start of the new trilogy has a bit more going on - especially after the wait.

But reading it knowing that the set up will pay off I have to say it's a much more entertaining book than I remembered.

[BigFatCoward]

8 hours ago, red snow said:

I certainly hope the start of the new trilogy has a bit more going on - especially after the wait.

 

Since the whole thing is being written together iirc, it shouldnt be too much of a wait between books (shattered seas was knocked at at a good rate as well). Or you could be strong and wait for all 3 to be released before starting. 

Just read the torture of brother longfoot section. Was this the only time in the books that torture actually worked? Even then the information gleaned was worthless, they journeyed to the end of the world for the seed and it wasn't there.  Mamun paid the order to let him know what bayaz was up to, glokta could do fuck all with it anyway. 

Am I fucking think for everyone by reading too far ahead and discussing stuff they haven't got to yet?