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The First Law- But a Second Reread (or Third, or Fourth or Fi.....) spoilers for First Law books

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3 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I hope bayaz made him go through all the shitty training for his own amusement, seems pointless is he was just going to cheat on his behalf otherwise. 

But isn't there a mention that Bayaz had other potential puppets set up, and Jezal was just the most convenient?  I don't remember where that was mentioned, but I do remember discussing it on this forum. 

EDIT:  Perhaps when Bayaz is telling off Jezal right after torturing him at the end of LAOK? 

Edited by Maithanet

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53 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

But isn't there a mention that Bayaz had other potential puppets set up, and Jezal was just the most convenient?  I don't remember where that was mentioned, but I do remember discussing it on this forum. 

EDIT:  Perhaps when Bayaz is telling off Jezal right after torturing him at the end of LAOK? 

i think one of his card playing friends may have been one of them, Kaspa or Brint?

Anybody else reading the kindle version, fucking formatting is terrible in mine, massive gaps between paragraphs, random letters or words that make no sense every so often, its a disgrace.

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2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

But isn't there a mention that Bayaz had other potential puppets set up, and Jezal was just the most convenient?  I don't remember where that was mentioned, but I do remember discussing it on this forum. 

EDIT:  Perhaps when Bayaz is telling off Jezal right after torturing him at the end of LAOK? 

Your memory is correct.  Cant recall which of his poker buddies specifically though.

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On 2/18/2019 at 10:22 AM, BigFatCoward said:

Finished book 1, thoroughly enjoyed picking up a lot of detail that missed previously knowing what was to come.  Even knowing what i know, Bayaz still comes across as the most decent character in the book, 

 

(emphasis mine)

I'm surprised to hear you say this. I think one of Abercrombie's main goals was to turn on its head the trope of the "avuncular wizard who guides our fledgling heroes through the difficulties the plot throws their way".

He turns out to be a petty, selfish, spiteful, megalomaniac. 

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21 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

(emphasis mine)

I'm surprised to hear you say this. I think one of Abercrombie's main goals was to turn on its head the trope of the "avuncular wizard who guides our fledgling heroes through the difficulties the plot throws their way".

He turns out to be a petty, selfish, spiteful, megalomaniac. 

Book 1 bayaz was fine. He was, funny, pragmatic and a massive piss taker. 

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5 hours ago, SeanF said:

I suppose there's no true happy ending with Joe Abercrombie.  She'll probably have terminal cancer or be murdered by revolutionaries.

She might catch it off West.

 

5 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I hope bayaz made him go through all the shitty training for his own amusement, seems pointless is he was just going to cheat on his behalf otherwise. 

I can't wait for Lord Smund to get chopped in half. 

If he didn't he at least makes him go on a quest just so he'll get disfigured.

One thing i did enjoy about the fencing final was Gorst and how it has me looking forward to his role in "the heroes". He actually comes off quite well in the duel and to some extent Jezal has been involved in Gorst's disgrace on several occasions. But it also reminded me of how deadly he was in future when fighting with real swords. What's really stood out in the reread is how there's enough spark in these minor characters for their future development to feel organic. Even black dow raises a smile when you know where he's growing.

I also think joe does a great job with bayaz in that all the signs are there for him being a prick but always hidden by something that seems more obvious eg Bayaz obviously rigs the fight because of his scheme for Jezal but on first read it could easily just be Bayaz wanting to win a bet to have fun with Logen.

The king mistaking Jezal as his son is also expertly done so that it seems the king is just a senile old fool.

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13 minutes ago, red snow said:

The king mistaking Jezal as his son is also expertly done so that it seems the king is just a senile old fool.

Huh?  Jezal isn't actually a kings bastard is he?  I thought he was just a random baby that Bayaz purchased from some poor woman and gave to noble family as a "possible". 

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Huh?  Jezal isn't actually a kings bastard is he?  I thought he was just a random baby that Bayaz purchased from some poor woman and gave to noble family as a "possible". 

I can't remember exactly. I thought he was one of many royal bastards so isn't exactly unique. Or was it simply Bayaz taking for granted people would assume he was a royal bastard? Either way there's still a hint or sense of play that we're getting a hint at Jezal's future.

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Huh?  Jezal isn't actually a kings bastard is he?  I thought he was just a random baby that Bayaz purchased from some poor woman and gave to noble family as a "possible". 

He is one of several bastards Bayaz says he lines up.  So...  Bayaz could have lied to Jezal about that and he may very well be the King's Bastard.  Or Bayaz could have several and started grooming Jezal based on characteristics such as his looks (what Bayaz claims).

We only have the word of Bayaz in anger to settle this currently.  But the king's reaction was a nice touch either way because for a while we are led to believe, as Jezal does, that he is truly a royal bastard.

Layers upon layers.

 

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I actually remember it being a bit worse than that. Jezal isn't a King's bastard at all but just a random one of a dozen orphans which Bayaz blackmailed various noblemen into raising (or simply paid them because he's the owner of the bank and can exert considerable clout). The whole thing was simply to make sure there was a candidate ready to put into the throne if/when it became necessary to eliminate the current monarchy. One who depended on Bayaz's patronage to stay in power.

Honestly, I'm not sure that the Prince wasn't just a good an option but I'm not a millennia-old archwizard.

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Sorry if I wasn't clear.  By one of many bastards I didn't mean one of many King's bastards, but just one of a group of random children.  But again, we only have Bayaz's word on this.  While that is the most likely story, there is a chance Jezel could have royal blood too and Bayaz doesn't give a damn; he will use royal blood or that of a regular old street urchin the same.  And tell either of them whatever he wants that ensures their compliance.

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2 hours ago, SkynJay said:

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  By one of many bastards I didn't mean one of many King's bastards, but just one of a group of random children.  But again, we only have Bayaz's word on this.  While that is the most likely story, there is a chance Jezel could have royal blood too and Bayaz doesn't give a damn; he will use royal blood or that of a regular old street urchin the same.  And tell either of them whatever he wants that ensures their compliance.

Mind you, the only reason Jezel thinks he's royal blood is because Bayaz says he is. So no reason to assume he's royal blood at all because if he's lying about one thing, he's certainly capable of lying about another.

He could very well be his father's son.

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After Yulwei delivers Ferro to Bayaz, they are discussing their strategy to combat Khalul and his eaters and Yulwei mentions that there is something far worse than eaters. He says something along the lines 'the Tellers of Secrets are always listening...'

Anyone know what, or who, Yulwei is referring to?

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