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A True Kaniggit

The First Law- But a Second Reread (or Third, or Fourth or Fi.....) spoilers for First Law books

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2 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Speaking of which, do we expect the new trilogy to be far less 'fantastical'? As bayaz hinted the magic was leaving the world. Though any resolution between bayaz and khalul will have to involve a bit of magical nonsense. 

Well, wasn't Bayaz developing canons in The Heroes? These developments have no doubt moved on and you'd expect the Gurkish to have made their own progress.  Maybe any resolution of their conflict will be more 'industrial' than 'magical'.

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Huh. On where Yulwei is from. He says, "Oh, I come from much further south, beyond Kanta, beyond the desert, even beyond the Circle of the World. The land of my birth will not be on your maps , friend." Nice knowing that there are other continents out there, free of the machinations of the Magi.

 

And also, from what we know of Gorst's inner dialogue from The Heroes. I'm trying to imagine what he was thinking after Jezal "won" the Contest. Probably something along the lines of "How in the hell did this scrawny little f***er just beat me?"

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17 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I thought it was meant to be open ended whether it was just a weird coincidence or indicative of something more.  But personally I think it is just coincidence.  Senile old people make that sort of mistake pretty regularly, it has happened to me more than once. 

As for Bayaz being responsible for the King's senility...that seems a little far fetched.  The King was senile long before Bayaz got to Adua, so he would have had to either have his agents poison his mind somehow or perform that mischief from afar.  And for what?  The King obviously was sufficiently manageable to hold the throne for many years, why the need to cripple and replace him?  It seems like the far simpler explanation is just that the King just went senile on his own. 

Serendipity is a thing. Bayaz’s plans aren’t down to the last detail, and it’s impossible even for him to account for all possible variables. For instance, he had no way Shivers would kill Dow in Calder’s duel. Bayaz makes his plans easily adaptable to the situation to which most benefit him. 

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I have to say Glocka’s use of  torture at times I find underlies the idea of torture being ineffective. Like with the Ambassador at Dagsoka. He was able to gather information on who are the traitors through torturing a man whose information he could not verify when there was a large chance of him being wrong. 

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16 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I have to say Glokta’s use of  torture at times I find underlies the idea of torture being ineffective. Like with the Ambassador at Dagsoka. He was able to gather information on who are the traitors through torturing a man whose information he could not verify when there was a large chance of him being wrong. 

Blah. Not even Glokta believe's torture is an effective way to gather accurate information. At the very beginning of the novel the Arch Lector asks him, "Did you talk?" and Glokta replies, "Did I talk? I talked until my throat was raw. I told them everything I could think of. I screamed every secret I'd ever heard. I babbled like a fool. When I ran out of things to tell them I made things up".

On two separate occasions this book he tells the Arch Lector he can get specific names accused from people he his torturing, because he knows if he tortures them enough they'll say what he wants.

Edited by A True Kaniggit

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9 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Blah. Not even Glokta believe's torture is an effective way to gather accurate information. At the very beginning of the novel the Arch Lector asks him, "Did you talk?" and Glokta replies, "Did I talk? I talked until my throat was raw. I told them everything I could think of. I screamed every secret I'd ever heard. I babbled like a fool. When I ran out of things to tell them I made things up".

On two separate occasions this book he tells the Arch Lector he can get specific names accused from people he his torturing.

Yes, he doesn’t believe it’s an effective way to get info-until the plot needs him to.  Glocka used it in Dagoska to get information that he couldn’t possibly verify and acting off that information in regards to who is the traitor and what the enemy’s plans are.

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Speaking of which, do we expect the new trilogy to be far less 'fantastical'? As bayaz hinted the magic was leaving the world. Though any resolution between bayaz and khalul will have to involve a bit of magical nonsense. 

It might become more concentrated into the magi? 

Breaking the first and second law isn't magic right? If so we could still have a lot of fantastical elements maybe more?

I'm hoping there will be a industrialization vs magic war eg union vs empire. What's stronger an eater or 100 men with muskets or a cannon?

I think I've crossed the chapters you mentioned regarding a lot of mentions of logen butchering people and licking blood off his fingers. I don't think it makes him an eater unless he eats flesh but he's on the edge of it especially if he had a nibble somewhere. The strong evidence against seems to be his ageing. I got the impression eaters don't age unless they need to replenish their human intake to top up

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26 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think I've crossed the chapters you mentioned regarding a lot of mentions of logen butchering people and licking blood off his fingers. I don't think it makes him an eater unless he eats flesh but he's on the edge of it especially if he had a nibble somewhere. The strong evidence against seems to be his ageing. I got the impression eaters don't age unless they need to replenish their human intake to top up

I don't think that just anyone can become an Eater. Yulwei implies as much when he tells Bayaz that Khalul's priests scour the south looking for anyone with promise to turn into Eaters. 

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6 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Speaking of which, do we expect the new trilogy to be far less 'fantastical'? As bayaz hinted the magic was leaving the world. Though any resolution between bayaz and khalul will have to involve a bit of magical nonsense. 

Probably.  Although, I rather enjoyed the demonic elements of The First Law.

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2 hours ago, Consigliere said:

I don't think that just anyone can become an Eater. Yulwei implies as much when he tells Bayaz that Khalul's priests scour the south looking for anyone with promise to turn into Eaters. 

Spirit talker is special. Plus it's an odd law if it only applies to select few. Unless most who break the second law just die or go straight to hell and only rare individuals get kick ass powers? Could be that.

Do we ever get to see what the punishment/consequences of breaking the laws are? So far it just seems to result in magi killing you but if that's all it is then it could simply be magic users trying to stop adversaries appearing. Maybe that's why khalul has a lot and why bayaz bends the rule when it suits him?

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23 minutes ago, red snow said:

only rare individuals get kick ass powers? Could be that.

That's how I interpreted it.  Very hard to believe that anyone in the world would gain superpowers just by eating another person's flesh.  If that were the case, people would know about it and cannibalism would be a bigger thing.

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Yeah, I think it’s more like don’t eat the flesh of man ... because that’s what the demons want.  Glustrod first broke the first law and “touched the other side” and the demons told him to break the second one.  So maybe you need to do both to get the powers.  There must be something in it for the demons too.  I’m not sure why just eating flesh should expose you to magic if magic all comes (or mostly comes) from demons and demon blood.

There’s no third law not to speak to spirits, right?  Euz wasn't bothered about that one.

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37 minutes ago, red snow said:

Spirit talker is special. Plus it's an odd law if it only applies to select few. Unless most who break the second law just die or go straight to hell and only rare individuals get kick ass powers? Could be that.

Do we ever get to see what the punishment/consequences of breaking the laws are? So far it just seems to result in magi killing you but if that's all it is then it could simply be magic users trying to stop adversaries appearing. Maybe that's why khalul has a lot and why bayaz bends the rule when it suits him?

The Second Law is universal.  After all, there will be plenty who think they might gain special powers by eating the flesh of men, even if in fact, only a tiny handful do so.

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42 minutes ago, john said:

There’s no third law not to speak to spirits, right?  Euz wasn't bothered about that one.

There isn't. Euz gave Bedesh the skill to speak to spirits and make them do his bidding so clearly speaking to spirits doesn't violate the first law. 

 

1 hour ago, red snow said:

Do we ever get to see what the punishment/consequences of breaking the laws are? So far it just seems to result in magi killing you but if that's all it is then it could simply be magic users trying to stop adversaries appearing. Maybe that's why khalul has a lot and why bayaz bends the rule when it suits him?

Violating the first law seems to result in the person hearing the voices of demons who try to corrupt the person/drive them to insanity and make them open the gates that Euz sealed and release demons back into the world. This happened to Glustrod, Tolomei and Ferro.

IIRC, Shickel tells Glokta that Eaters all have the same curse. Can't quite recall what this "curse" is or if the books even actually mention it. 

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31 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

IIRC, Shickel tells Glokta that Eaters all have the same curse. Can't quite recall what this "curse" is or if the books even actually mention it. 

I thought it was that once you start eating, you have to keep eating or you will starve.  I don't know where I got that impression, something one of the eaters said about their "insatiable hunger" which cannot be satisfied with normal food. 

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That or the potential elemental weakness. Yulwei seemed to make short work of the eaters by killing one with flame and the other water?

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

That or the potential elemental weakness. Yulwei seemed to make short work of the eaters by killing one with flame and the other water?

Do you think those attacks wouldn't work on non-eaters as well?  I assume they would, although I don't think we ever saw Yulwei attempt it.  And he did mention those were young eaters who sort of sucked.  I think Yulwei might have had a great deal of trouble if he were dealing with one of the more powerful eaters we see. 

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2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I thought it was that once you start eating, you have to keep eating or you will starve.  I don't know where I got that impression, something one of the eaters said about their "insatiable hunger" which cannot be satisfied with normal food. 

Maybe. 

The books don't really show any dire negative consequences for breaking the second law though. It was only Shickel (that I can recall) who displayed a deep regret and disgust at what she's become and that could very well be down to Khalul's priests making her eat her own mother first. We've even had Shenkt's POV and I don't recall him having any internal thoughts as to how he is cursed. 

Edited by Consigliere

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