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Daenerys (very likely) has Stark ancestry


Ser Hedge

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On 2/2/2019 at 5:20 PM, Ser Hedge said:

FaB contains this little nugget that Visenya and Rhaenys arranged the marriage of one of Torrhen Stark's daughters to Ronnel Arryn. So if Lord Rodrik Arryn is a descendant of theirs (likely a great-grandson) - and not from a parallel line/cadet branch because the main Arryn line died out- that gives Aemma Arryn, Rhaenyra and hence Aegon III's and Viserys II's descendants some Stark ancestry. So theoretically Dany has (a tiny portion of) Stark 'blood'. Applying modern generic theory, you could probably argue that the influence could be so faint that is immaterial, but I guess all the arguments about Ice & Fire being all about Stark and Targaryen blood 'mixing' (and that's why R sought out L) sound a little bit less convincing, as Rhaenyra would be the first Westerosi to have both bloodlines (and a fat lot of good it did her, eh?) I wonder if there is a reason GRRM threw this titbit in. (If it was already in TWOIAF I missed it sorry) Maybe we are meant to focus less on bloodlines and consider Ice and Fire symbolically?

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Edit: As forum members have pointed out, Ronnel was succeeded by his cousin Hubbert, so Aemma Arryn and her defendants are not descended from Torrhen's line after all. The most likely source for a Stark gene now is a daughter of Cregan and Aly that might have married Seth Blackwood, but this is not canon (yet). If you can find any reference to a Stark marriage outside of the North in the days before the conquest, please post it here.

Let's send them a DNA kit from ancestry dot com and have them all give a sample.  

What George is telling us is bloodlines do not matter for most people.  It's only once in a blue moon that the recessive genes express themselves.  The amount of Stark blood is tiny but there.  It's presence doesn't mean the carrier will have warg talent.  In the same way that it doesn't mean every secret Targ bastard will be able to ride a dragon.  Then you have to also put forth in consideration that even the ones with a talent do not have it at the same level.  Some Targaryens were bad riders.  Athletic talent can factor into the ability to ride.  The dragon may accept the rider but the rider may not have the balance.  I think Dany's time with the Dothraki helped make her into a skilled rider.  So for the Starks, a guy like Bran who has had time will be the best warg.  

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On 2/25/2019 at 11:23 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Let's send them a DNA kit from ancestry dot com and have them all give a sample.  

What George is telling us is bloodlines do not matter for most people.  It's only once in a blue moon that the recessive genes express themselves.  The amount of Stark blood is tiny but there.  It's presence doesn't mean the carrier will have warg talent.  In the same way that it doesn't mean every secret Targ bastard will be able to ride a dragon.  Then you have to also put forth in consideration that even the ones with a talent do not have it at the same level.  Some Targaryens were bad riders.  Athletic talent can factor into the ability to ride.  The dragon may accept the rider but the rider may not have the balance.  I think Dany's time with the Dothraki helped make her into a skilled rider.  So for the Starks, a guy like Bran who has had time will be the best warg.  

Yes, I agree the presence or absence of a tiny bit of Stark DNA in the Targaryen family tree should have no impact on the broader storyline per se. The story seems more about how magic in Planetos seems to have awoken again (whether by the red comet or not) and Bran, Jon and Arya have all exhibited (to varying extents) a magical trait that their lineage might have been known for in ancient times, but one not seen south of the wall in a long time. On the other hand, not every Northern (or Royce or Blackwood) noble with some Stark ancestry suddenly started warging ravens, cats and dogs at that time. Likely it was the bonding with the direwolf pups that allowed the Stark children (and cousin) to develop the gift further. 

Dany performed a feat greater than any of her ancestors (at least since the conqueror) were able to do, seeing the eggs were petrified (at the least they were from the time of Jahaerys I and not recently laid,even if they were not fossils in the true sense). A unique set of circumstances seen to have brought this magic about. However, compared to what we see in FaB, it took her much longer to figure out how to actually ride one of her dragons. Her first flight is most similar to Aerea's really. This could have been the loss of knowledge of course as she had to work everything out from scratch and the fact she had denied her heritage (after the Hazea incident/framing) at exactly the time Drogon was growing big enough to ride.

What is interesting is that the person in the universe who seemed to be able to perform the most magic after the doom and before the red comet was probably Bloodraven and as pointed out on the forum many times, he seemed to be the first to have a combination of First Men blood from a significant house and Targaryen blood. That is unless we must dismiss all the talk of sorcery as rumours and just view him as a very powerful greenseer, who just statistically popped up when he did with ancestry not having anything to do with it, the wargs north of the wall we've encountered so far really being a ragged bunch (treating a greenseer as a very special warg here).

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