Jump to content
Alexander Leonard

Do you think it would be better for Queen Rhaenys to marry Orys Baratheon?

Recommended Posts

Rhaenys wouldn't have to share a husband with her sister Visenya. And Orys wouldn't have to marry a Argella who swore to fight him to the bitter end. It seems to me a better arrangement than two sisters marrying one brother and then their bastard half-brother marring an enemy who had strong motive to assassinate him.

And there wouldn’t have been war of succession after Aegon’s death.

Edited by Alexander Leonard
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to be another alternate scenario where Maegor Ruins Everything. 

The premise is a little odd, since Orys is never formally acknowledged, but let’s roll with it. I don’t think that Aegon would have given Orys Storm’s End without a marital link, so Argella is either Lady Durrandon under Aegon or her line gets extinguished. 

Aegon does not have an heir until 10 AC with Maegor. When he dies Maegor will become king and immediately escalate these things. In this alternate scenario, the ascension of a “Jaehaerys Baratheon” may not be so easy when Maegor dies without children, as he is through a bastard + female line, the Baratheons are likely landless, and Argella’s descendants may not welcome a new king with open arms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You really want Aegon/Visenya to be a thing don't you.  xD

Sure, in some ways it would've been better. But I think at the end of the day Orys marrying Argella was the right move. Orys took the Durrandon sigil and words, which would've probably helped appease the Stormlanders somewhat. 

Then there is Aegon, who loved Rhaenys more then Visenya. I don't think he would've been happy watching the sister he loved married to his bastard brother, whilst he is stuck with the sister he isn't overly fond of. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

You really want Aegon/Visenya to be a thing don't you.  xD

Then there is Aegon, who loved Rhaenys more then Visenya. I don't think he would've been happy watching the sister he loved married to his bastard brother, whilst he is stuck with the sister he isn't overly fond of. 

Yeah I think Visenya and Aegon would be a better couple because they were more like each other. They were trained together as warriors since childhood. If Rhaenys did not join their marriage, they would eventually warm up.
Rhaenys and Aegon had very different personalities. Rhaenys liked to be surrounded by singers, dancers and poets, but Aegon didn't have such talents. He might be attracted by Rhaenys, but I don't think he knew how to please her. Rhaenys might not be really happy living with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

But I think at the end of the day Orys marrying Argella was the right move. Orys took the Durrandon sigil and words, which would've probably helped appease the Stormlanders somewhat. 

I find this part of the story very unrealistic. I don't think Argella could get over the fact they he killed her father and probably many other relatives. You don't forgive a murderer of your father so easily. Orys taking Argella as wife was a very risky move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Seems to be another alternate scenario where Maegor Ruins Everything. 

The premise is a little odd, since Orys is never formally acknowledged, but let’s roll with it. I don’t think that Aegon would have given Orys Storm’s End without a marital link, so Argella is either Lady Durrandon under Aegon or her line gets extinguished. 

Aegon does not have an heir until 10 AC with Maegor. When he dies Maegor will become king and immediately escalate these things. In this alternate scenario, the ascension of a “Jaehaerys Baratheon” may not be so easy when Maegor dies without children, as he is through a bastard + female line, the Baratheons are likely landless, and Argella’s descendants may not welcome a new king with open arms.

If Aegon didn't have Rhaenys, he would probably have spent more nights with Visenya, and Visenya might have a child sooner. Also I think Maegor became crazy only after his injury after the trial by seven. If he was Aegon's heir he would not have to fight so hard for the throne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Alexander Leonard said:

If Aegon didn't have Rhaenys, he would probably have spent more nights with Visenya, and Visenya might have a child sooner. Also I think Maegor became crazy only after his injury after the trial by seven. If he was Aegon's heir he would not have to fight so hard for the throne.

There were probably multiple factors why she didn’t have a child by 39. In this extent I am a fan of the heavily implied “Visenya had to use magic” theory. I think the magic + upbringing was key; Maegor seemef extremely cruel since childhood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Alexander Leonard said:

Yeah I think Visenya and Aegon would be a better couple because they were more like each other. They were trained together as warriors since childhood. If Rhaenys did not join their marriage, they would eventually warm up.

Sure, on paper Aegon and Visenya would make a better couple. Unfortunately that isn't how love works. If someone said to me, "hey, I think you where better with your ex, you and your new girlfriend just don't have as much in common with each other as you and your ex did", I'd be like, "um, fuck you."  xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

Sure, on paper Aegon and Visenya would make a better couple. Unfortunately that isn't how love works. If someone said to me, "hey, I think you where better with your ex, you and your new girlfriend just don't have as much in common with each other as you and your ex did", I'd be like, "um, fuck you."  xD

You know your new girlfriend loves you, right? But here we do not know whether Rhaenys loved Aegon because she never said so. We do not know if she was happily married to him or not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Alexander Leonard said:

But here we do not know whether Rhaenys loved Aegon because she never said so. We do not know if she was happily married to him or not.

We also don't know that she didn't love him, because she never said that either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No.  The events that played out in the books set up the excellent history of Targaryen rule, right up to War of the Five Kings.  It has been a very good read just the way it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Argella is a daughter of Argellac the Arrogant. She has her father arrogance. She prefers to sacrifice all her people instead of give up. So to give up and marry Orys is not her choice it it the choice of her people who give her naked to Orys. What Orys did is to make Argella his wife and to treat her with respect. His act is to win the respect of her people on the first place. To have the stormlords on his side with no bloodloss. He acts wisely. Taking over Stormlands is huge success and I don't think it was possible without Orys marrying Argella. 

I don't think there are serious clues about feelings between Orys and Rhaenys. The love and attraction have nothing to do with similarities. There is no love and attraction between Aegon I and Visenya. And I don't think that they have many things in common. They are skillful warriors and so what. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MarraOfChaos said:

Argella is a daughter of Argellac the Arrogant. She has her father arrogance. She prefers to sacrifice all her people instead of give up. So to give up and marry Orys is not her choice it it the choice of her people who give her naked to Orys. What Orys did is to make Argella his wife and to treat her with respect. His act is to win the respect of her people on the first place. To have the stormlords on his side with no bloodloss. He acts wisely. Taking over Stormlands is huge success and I don't think it was possible without Orys marrying Argella. 

I don't think there are serious clues about feelings between Orys and Rhaenys. The love and attraction have nothing to do with similarities. There is no love and attraction between Aegon I and Visenya. And I don't think that they have many things in common. They are skillful warriors and so what. 

When her father was killed, she swore to fight the enemy to the bitter end, which means she was prepared to die and she did not fear death. By taking her as wife, Orys put himself in grave danger. She could assassinate him at any time and then commit suicide, to avenge her father's death.
Rhaenys liked to be surrounded by singers, dancers and poets but Aegon lacked such talents. That's why I think she might not want to marry him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alexander Leonard said:

When her father was killed, she swore to fight the enemy to the bitter end, which means she was prepared to die and she did not fear death. By taking her as wife, Orys put himself in grave danger. She could assassinate him at any time and then commit suicide, to avenge her father's death.
Rhaenys liked to be surrounded by singers, dancers and poets but Aegon lacked such talents. That's why I think she might not want to marry him.

I know a lot of women who loves singing and dancing and if they have to choose between Justin Timberlake and Vin Diesel, the first has no chance. Trust me I'm a woman. And this about Argella is too much drama. Killing and commiting suicide is like a soap opera scenario. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, MarraOfChaos said:

I know a lot of women who loves singing and dancing and if they have to choose between Justin Timberlake and Vin Diesel, the first has no chance. Trust me I'm a woman. And this about Argella is too much drama. Killing and commiting suicide is like a soap opera scenario. 

Tess did it to Dalton Greyjoy, but Orys was by no means a Red Kraken. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/6/2019 at 7:47 PM, Vaith said:

Tess did it to Dalton Greyjoy, but Orys was by no means a Red Kraken. :)

True. But maybe Argella was more arogant than determined. I haven't read about Argella actual attempts to kill Orys. Are there such attempts mentioned or her hate is just verbal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2019 at 3:05 AM, Alexander Leonard said:

Yeah I think Visenya and Aegon would be a better couple because they were more like each other.

Being more like each other does not make a better couple. The important thing is being complementary, not equal.

And in any case, we actually know about Aegon's preferences here. He preferred Rhaenys, and spend with her ten night for each one that he spent with Visenya.

On 2/3/2019 at 3:05 AM, Alexander Leonard said:

If Rhaenys did not join their marriage, they would eventually warm up.

Rhaenys died at 10 AC. Visenya was Aegon's only wife for 27 years. During that time, not only they didn't warm up but became more and more distanced. We know that Aegon went on progresses alone, leaving Visenya at King's Landing. And later, we are told that in the court there were rumours that he had entrusted Visenya the building of the Red Keep "so he would not have to endure her presence on Dragonstone."

 

On 2/3/2019 at 3:15 AM, Alexander Leonard said:

Also I think Maegor became crazy only after his injury after the trial by seven. If he was Aegon's heir he would not have to fight so hard for the throne.

Killing cats, marrying a second (and a third) wife without permission of the king, menacing said king and refusing to return him the ancestral family sword, beheading the Grand Maester for rightly suggesting that his ascension was against the laws of succession,... all of those are things that Maegor did before the trial by seven.

On 2/3/2019 at 3:10 AM, Alexander Leonard said:

I find this part of the story very unrealistic. I don't think Argella could get over the fact they he killed her father and probably many other relatives. You don't forgive a murderer of your father so easily. Orys taking Argella as wife was a very risky move.

I agree with you here. But I don't think it's unrealistic that this is the story that was written down, only that it happens. I don't think it's unlikely that Argella was just forced to marry Orys. The story that Glyndayn and Yandel tell is not necessarily "the truth", but the commonly accepted version of what happened.

Edited by The hairy bear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bastard of Royal Line + Trueborn Daughter versus Rival Trueborn Daughter and Founder of line with an heir who cannot reproduce. No way that could lead to a disaster....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/2/2019 at 8:08 PM, Alexander Leonard said:

Rhaenys wouldn't have to share a husband with her sister Visenya. And Orys wouldn't have to marry a Argella who swore to fight him to the bitter end. It seems to me a better arrangement than two sisters marrying one brother and then their bastard half-brother marring an enemy who had strong motive to assassinate him.

And there wouldn’t have been war of succession after Aegon’s death.

No.  Just no.  Rhaenys marrying a bastard is out of the question.  That's more than a scandal to suggest such a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×