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Would Robert be a better man if he didn't marry Cersei or vice versa?

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In a thread a few months ago about why Lyanna Stark was betrothed to Robert Baratheon instead of other men, it was discussed whether or not marrying Robert would have made Lyanna into something resembling Cersei in cruelty and malice or would Robert be a better person if he hadn't married Cersei. 

Thoughts? I'm not sure either way.

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10 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

In a thread a few months ago about why Lyanna Stark was betrothed to Robert Baratheon instead of other men, it was discussed whether or not marrying Robert would have made Lyanna into something resembling Cersei in cruelty and malice or would Robert be a better person if he hadn't married Cersei. 

Thoughts? I'm not sure either way.

Cersei was already a murderer, brother fucker, and a wannabe schemer by the time of the Tourney. She’d be no better, as a person.

Robert would likely still go down a similar trajectory as in the books. I suppose you could theorize that there must have been a woman that could have brought out the best in him, but who would it be?

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40 minutes ago, DominusNovus said:

Cersei was already a murderer, brother fucker, and a wannabe schemer by the time of the Tourney. She’d be no better, as a person.

Robert would likely still go down a similar trajectory as in the books. I suppose you could theorize that there must have been a woman that could have brought out the best in him, but who would it be?

So was Cersei simply the worst person for Robert to marry? 

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28 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So was Cersei simply the worst person for Robert to marry? 

I think the problem lies with Cersei and Robert despising each other as the time goes by... And lyanna would have the same problems. Even if she didn t turn evil she would become a schemer and manipulator because any strong willed woman would be miserable with Robert. 

Robert should have married a kind and weak willed woman that could live with a cheating husband that would grow bored of her without ending despising him. This way even if Robert didn t love the woman he would at least care for her and be simpathetic. 

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6 hours ago, divica said:

I think the problem lies with Cersei and Robert despising each other as the time goes by... And lyanna would have the same problems. Even if she didn t turn evil she would become a schemer and manipulator because any strong willed woman would be miserable with Robert. 

Robert should have married a kind and weak willed woman that could live with a cheating husband that would grow bored of her without ending despising him. This way even if Robert didn t love the woman he would at least care for her and be simpathetic. 

Would they? If I were a strong willed woman, I wouldn’t mind a husband that grew bored of me (this is presuming we’re talking arranged political marriages). I’d be more worried about a domineering husband, myself. Robert’s attitude is basically benign neglect (the benign part is debatable).

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10 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

In a thread a few months ago about why Lyanna Stark was betrothed to Robert Baratheon instead of other men, it was discussed whether or not marrying Robert would have made Lyanna into something resembling Cersei in cruelty and malice or would Robert be a better person if he hadn't married Cersei. 

Thoughts? I'm not sure either way.

Bar Lyanna - I personally don't think so. Not that he was bad - but the man acted the way he did to escape his broken heart. Sad stuff, really.

Perhaps a relationship with Lyanna would have soured too - but maybe if he truly loved her he would have been devoted and quit visiting brothels and drinking quite so much.

A relationship with Lyanna would have made the Starks a much more powerful house, or at least increased their presence at court. Maybe closer proximity to Ned would have kept Robert in check more than being married to Lyanna by its self.

Edited by Legitimate_Bastard

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Cersei is the worst woman to marry for anyone. Cheating, violent, schemer, murderer, crazy, paranoid, refused to bed her husband and aborted any child of him out of spite. Anyone would be better off without her.

We don't see Lyanna and since we don't know her, is hard to predict what would she become had she married Robert, but I doubt very much that she would sink to the levels of Cersei, I can't see Catelyn going on this path for example.

Robert marrying Lyanna would surely turn him into a better men. I doubt he would be loyal, but this is not out of ordinary for westeros. Robert before marrying Cersei seems to be a great guy, he was mercyfull to a fault and capable of turning enemies into die hard loyal friends.

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9 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

In a thread a few months ago about why Lyanna Stark was betrothed to Robert Baratheon instead of other men, it was discussed whether or not marrying Robert would have made Lyanna into something resembling Cersei in cruelty and malice or would Robert be a better person if he hadn't married Cersei. 

Thoughts? I'm not sure either way.

No, marrying Robert would not have made Lyanna into something resembling Cersei in cruelty and malice. The differences between Lyanna and Cersei, who must have been close in age, were already well established before Robert's Rebellion, and Cersei didn't become cruel and malicious as a result of her marriage to Robert.

I think Robert could have been a much happier person, if not necessarily "better," had he remained Lord of Storm's End, and married someone other than Cersei, but not if that someone was Lyanna. For all the differences between Lyanna and Cersei, I don't think Lyanna would have had any happier a marriage with Robert than Cersei did.

Robert was obsessively in love with Lyanna, and was never going to get anything like that in return from Lyanna. She would have done her duty, Robert would have kept whoring, Lyanna would have resented having to be with him, and Robert would have resented her inability or refusal to reciprocate his feelings.

Had he wed Lyanna, Robert might have even been worse than he is in AGOT, as he would have gone into that marriage with much greater expectations than he had going into the marriage with Cersei, while Lyanna would have gone into the marriage much more unhappily and much less willingly than Cersei did.

The Robert we meet can believe that his unhappiness stems from having the woman he loved taken from him, and having to settle for a woman he didn't want.

The Robert who wed Lyanna would have had to face the fact that he was unhappy despite getting the woman he loved, because she doesn't love him.

Robert might have been able to find happiness, and to be less of a drunkard, had he ended up with someone who did not resent him for screwing around. Perhaps even someone like Catelyn, who takes for granted that it is something men in Westeros do, or the daughter of a lesser lord.

But Lyanna and Robert had expectations that the other could not meet, and they would have likely had a very unhappy and troubled marriage, which likely would have also put strain on the friendship between Ned and Robert.

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27 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Bar Lyanna - I personally don't think so. Not that he was bad - but the man acted the way he did to escape his broken heart. Sad stuff, really.

Perhaps a relationship with Lyanna would have soured too - but maybe if he truly loved her he would have been devoted and quit visiting brothels and drinking quite so much.

A relationship with Lyanna would have made the Starks a much more powerful house, or at least increased their presence at court. Maybe closer proximity to Ned would have kept Robert in check more than being married to Lyanna by its self.

I don't think there is any basis to say that.

"Well, I might be." When the girl shrugged, her gown slipped off one shoulder. "They say King Robert fucked my mother when he hid here, back before the battle. Not that he didn't have all the other girls too, but Leslyn says he liked my ma the best." (ASOS: Arya V)

So even as Robert presumes Lyanna has been abducted and is being raped, but is still alive, he is screwing around with prostitutes. And had she actually lived to wed him, she was never going to love him like he believed he loved her, or be the wife he wanted or expected. He would have continued whoring, and he would still have had issues with the drink.

And any issues between Lyanna and Robert could have not only damaged the relationship between Ned and Robert, but also between Lyanna and her family.

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1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I don't think there is any basis to say that.

"Well, I might be." When the girl shrugged, her gown slipped off one shoulder. "They say King Robert fucked my mother when he hid here, back before the battle. Not that he didn't have all the other girls too, but Leslyn says he liked my ma the best." (ASOS: Arya V)

So even as Robert presumes Lyanna has been abducted and is being raped, but is still alive, he is screwing around with prostitutes. And had she actually lived to wed him, she was never going to love him like he believed he loved her, or be the wife he wanted or expected. He would have continued whoring, and he would still have had issues with the drink.

And any issues between Lyanna and Robert could have not only damaged the relationship between Ned and Robert, but also between Lyanna and her family.

Hence the maybe

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His character was flawed to begin with, as he had little sense of duty, and was more interested in his own pleasures. Don't know if it would have made him a "better man" but there would have been less opportunities for his character flaws to show. 

 

Robert WAS doomed in that marriage, but it was winning the rebellion that did for him. 

 

If Bob hadn't grabbed the Throne he might have done less damage as a drunken absentee Lord of the  Stormlands, with his capable but dour brother as castellan running a tight ship...

Edited by Ser Uncle P

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Roberts wife definitely had an effect on him. If lyanna was happily married to him, he’d be a better man and king

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11 minutes ago, Aegon VII said:

Roberts wife definitely had an effect on him. If lyanna was happily married to him, he’d be a better man and king

Lyanna didn't want to marry him, and never would have been happily married to him. Had she been forced to wed him, she might have done her duty, but she never would have reciprocated the feelings Robert believed he had for Lyanna, and she wouldn't have faked loving or being happy with Robert just to keep his delusions alive. They would have had an unhappy marriage, and Robert would have been just as miserable, if not more, than he is with Cersei, because, unlike with Cersei, he was obsessively in love with Lyanna.

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5 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Lyanna didn't want to marry him, and never would have been happily married to him. Had she been forced to wed him, she might have done her duty, but she never would have reciprocated the feelings Robert believed he had for Lyanna, and she wouldn't have faked loving or being happy with Robert just to keep his delusions alive. They would have had an unhappy marriage, and Robert would have been just as miserable, if not more, than he is with Cersei, because, unlike with Cersei, he was obsessively in love with Lyanna.

I believe you’re too confident in that conclusion. Maybe it would have ended badly, but maybe Robert would have been a better man because lyanna demanded it, and they both fall in love. Robert was a good enough man to be Ned starks best friend, and he loved her. There’s a chance he would have been a good husband and over time lyanna would love him back. 

We’ll never know, but I stand by my statement that if they were happily married, he’d be a better man. If they weren’t happily married, Robert would be dead or abandoned. 

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I’d like to suggest that we’re basing these opinions on the nature of a 14-16 year old girl, of whom we read a few paragraphs, and of a 21 year old man who grew into a miserable 36 year old, of whom we have admittedly read quite a bit more.

Would Lyanna be the same person at 30 as she was at 16? Would Robert be the same person with a wife who wasn’t cuckolding him through his entire marriage as he was with one? I don’t know what they’d be like, but I can be quite confident that they’d be different.

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His mood might be better one day out of seven but he's still a womanizing man who will father many bastards.  The tedious task of ruling will tax his patience still.  

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No. Robert would have always been a horrible husband, person, father even without marrying Cersei. They just bought out the worst in each other and should have been locked up in the Stormlands at Storm’s End making each other miserable and away from the millions of innocents lives they ruined. 

Also Robert is responsible for his own actions. He is responsible for how he reacts in situations. Cersei being a horrible person did not turn Robert into the scum he has been most of his life. 

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