Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
AncalagonTheBlack

Black Leopard, Red Wolf by Marlon James

Recommended Posts

Yeah I here it used bu authors to describe a single work that they don't want to call SFF because, well, usually the authors are butts. I admit I have had bad experiences with the term that colors my perceptions though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't get the hatred for the term Speculative Fiction. Most often it's used as a term to encompass all the genres which deal in the unreal. It's just easier and cleaner to say or write "Speculative Fiction" (or Spec Fic) than "Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror, as well as all the sub genres thereof, and also those works which don't fit easily in any of those genres but are still weird and deal in things that couldn't happen in real life".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't get the hatred for the term Speculative Fiction. Most often it's used as a term to encompass all the genres which deal in the unreal. It's just easier and cleaner to say or write "Speculative Fiction" (or Spec Fic) than "Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror, as well as all the sub genres thereof, and also those works which don't fit easily in any of those genres but are still weird and deal in things that couldn't happen in real life".

Thank you.

Speculative fiction is an umbrella term. And seeing as there are plenty of works that straddle the boundary between science-fiction, fantasy, and/or horror, it's a useful umbrella term. You can safely say "Perdido Street Station is speculative fiction", without getting into petty and pedantic arguments about where it sits on the fantasy/science-fiction divide. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't get the hatred for the term Speculative Fiction. Most often it's used as a term to encompass all the genres which deal in the unreal. It's just easier and cleaner to say or write "Speculative Fiction" (or Spec Fic) than "Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror, as well as all the sub genres thereof, and also those works which don't fit easily in any of those genres but are still weird and deal in things that couldn't happen in real life".

Or you can just say SciFi/Fantasy, and just use less syllables.  And i'm not sure why you guys keep including Horror under the 'umbrella'. Completely different genre of books, style, and marketing. Nor the fight to hold on to one of the most confusing terms in our little corner of the world.  As shown in the other thread, even the authors in the genre can't agree on what it means.  However, when you say SciFi/Fantasy, that obviously encompasses all the sub genres, ideas, and odd little corners of our literary world. Unless, or course, you just want to sound high brow and try to have a seat of the table with the literary snobs that scoff at terms like science fiction or fantasy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or you can just say SciFi/Fantasy, and just use less syllables.  And i'm not sure why you guys keep including Horror under the 'umbrella'. Completely different genre of books, style, and marketing. Nor the fight to hold on to one of the most confusing terms in our little corner of the world.  As shown in the other thread, even the authors in the genre can't agree on what it means.  However, when you say SciFi/Fantasy, that obviously encompasses all the sub genres, ideas, and odd little corners of our literary world. Unless, or course, you just want to sound high brow and try to have a seat of the table with the literary snobs that scoff at terms like science fiction or fantasy. 

It seems you answered your own question here by excluding Horror from your definition of SFF. Again, Spec Fic is generally used when referring to a broader group of works than that contained within the spectrum of SFF. Tell me, where does King's Salem's Lot fall on that spectrum? Or Rushdie's Midnight's Children, Okri's The Famished Road, Orwell's Animal Farm? Is The Walking Dead SciFi? Is it Fantasy? Is it even Horror? This is why people use the term Spec Fic; because sometimes SFF isn't broad enough to define the subject. It seems to me that someone who rages against literary snobbery would welcome a term that crosses genre lines to encompass everything from Dragonlance to One Hundred Years of Solitude. Sadly though that hasn't been the case in my experience. You know who I run into a lot more often than literary snobs? Angry genre purists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems you answered your own question here by excluding Horror from your definition of SFF. Again, Spec Fic is generally used when referring to a broader group of works than that contained within the spectrum of SFF. Tell me, where does King's Salem's Lot fall on that spectrum? Or Rushdie's Midnight's Children, Okri's The Famished Road, Orwell's Animal Farm? Is The Walking Dead SciFi? Is it Fantasy? Is it even Horror? This is why people use the term Spec Fic; because sometimes SFF isn't broad enough to define the subject. It seems to me that someone who rages against literary snobbery would welcome a term that crosses genre lines to encompass everything from Dragonlance to One Hundred Years of Solitude. Sadly though that hasn't been the case in my experience. You know who I run into a lot more often than literary snobs? Angry genre purists.

Again, no one... not a single person outside of forums like this even knows what the hell that term means, and even those that do can't agree on it's definition.  No, it's a silly term, used by silly people.  

And Mys, i'm angry, but i'm hardly a purist.  If something makes sense, i'm all for it, but like I said above, this doesn't.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, no one... not a single person outside of forums like this even knows what the hell that term means, and even those that do can't agree on it's definition.  No, it's a silly term, used by silly people.  

And Mys, i'm angry, but i'm hardly a purist.  If something makes sense, i'm all for it, but like I said above, this doesn't.  

So I guess your unsubstantiated claims tump my reasoning? And most people on this board at least seem to be in agreement that Speculative Fiction is an umbrella term covering all works that deal in the unreal. You know, those works of fiction which speculate on what would happen if the impossible or highly improbable were reality. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I guess your unsubstantiated claims tump my reasoning? And most people on this board at least seem to be in agreement that Speculative Fiction is an umbrella term covering all works that deal in the unreal. You know, those works of fiction which speculate on what would happen if the impossible or highly improbable were reality. 

Really? Based on theses threads just as many have expressed confusion as have agreement.

Carry on though. I'll stick to using actual identifiers.

And unsubstantiated? We're talking about a made up word for books about dragons and shit. How do you want me to substantiate it? I've already provided links from reputable sources questioning its use what more do you want? And official poll?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Really? Based on theses threads just as many have expressed confusion as have agreement.

 

Carry on though. I'll stick to using actual identifiers.

And unsubstantiated? We're talking about a made up word for books about dragons and shit. How do you want me to substantiate it? I've already provided links from reputable sources questioning its use what more do you want? And official poll?

Your claim that "no one... not a single person outside of forums like this even knows what the hell that term means" is the unsubstantiated bit. I still have no idea why you have so much disdain for the term Speculative Fiction. You keep saying it makes no sense, but the reasons for its usage have been explained to you several times over, and a basic understanding of the word "speculate" should be enough to clue anyone in on why it would be used in relation to fiction which deals with impossible or improbable things, including, but not limited to, dragons and shit. So some people, when discussing this broad category of works, use speculative as a descriptor. Because it is a real, and in no way made up, word that ably describes said broad category of works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See, the reason I, personally, get bitchy about it, is that I have on no less than three occasions in real life, had someone tell me a certain book isn't SFF, its Spec Fic, because Spec Fic is good. One of them, was, I shit you not, about a Star Wars book. So, I'm glad you guys don;t use it that way, but I have bad memories associated with the term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See, the reason I, personally, get bitchy about it, is that I have on no less than three occasions in real life, had someone tell me a certain book isn't SFF, its Spec Fic, because Spec Fic is good. One of them, was, I shit you not, about a Star Wars book. So, I'm glad you guys don;t use it that way, but I have bad memories associated with the term.



See, I get bitchy about the term 'graphic novel' for similar reasons (well, that and that 'graphic novel' has a specific meaning that isn't 'comic for grown-ups', but still).


I've never seen 'spec-fic' used that way- it seems to be far more a label used by us genre geeks than from outside- but I can see why some people would I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think I'd let something like "spec fic" make me lose respect for a work of fiction - I'd just lose some for the author but only if they refused to accept SFF as an alternative label. I'd probably be less likely to read something by someone unknown to me if I was aware of the attitude beforehand.

I'm still interested in anyone having a go at an african mythology version of LOTR/ASOIAF though regardless of what they or their publishers brand it as.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*throws more fuel on fire*

Atwood has resisted the suggestion that The Handmaid's Tale and Oryx and Crake are science fiction, suggesting to The Guardian that they are speculative fiction instead: "Science fiction has monsters and spaceships; speculative fiction could really happen."[17] She told the Book of the Month Club: "Oryx and Crake is a speculative fiction, not a science fiction proper. It contains no intergalactic space travel, no teleportation, no Martians."[26] On BBC Breakfast she explained that science fiction, as opposed to what she herself wrote, was "talking squids in outer space." The latter phrase particularly rankled advocates of science fiction and frequently recurs when her writing is discussed.[26]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*throws more fuel on fire*

Atwood has resisted the suggestion that The Handmaid's Tale and Oryx and Crake are science fiction, suggesting to The Guardian that they are speculative fiction instead: "Science fiction has monsters and spaceships; speculative fiction could really happen."[17] She told the Book of the Month Club: "Oryx and Crake is a speculative fiction, not a science fiction proper. It contains no intergalactic space travel, no teleportation, no Martians."[26] On BBC Breakfast she explained that science fiction, as opposed to what she herself wrote, was "talking squids in outer space." The latter phrase particularly rankled advocates of science fiction and frequently recurs when her writing is discussed.[26]

*Head desk*.

Science-fiction != Space Opera. Neither Isaac Asimov's Nightfall nor Arthur C. Clarke's Nine Billion Names of God feature space travel, teleportation, Martians, and talking squids. I'm sure Asimov and Clarke would be fascinated to learn that those (classic) stories weren't really science-fiction.

Remind me to stay well clear of Atwood's work in future. 

Edit - Further investigation indicates that I'm being harsh on Atwood. Apparently she was under pressure from the publisher not mention the term Science fiction in relation to her work. They (and via the pressure imposed, her) feared being frozen out of mainstream recognition and literary acceptance. So she's tried to redefine herself out the genre.

Edited by Roose Boltons Pet Leech

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*Head desk*.

Science-fiction != Space Opera. Neither Isaac Asimov's Nightfall nor Arthur C. Clarke's Nine Billion Names of God feature space travel, teleportation, Martians, and talking squids. I'm sure Asimov and Clarke would be fascinated to learn that those (classic) stories weren't really science-fiction.

Remind me to stay well clear of Atwood's work in future. 

Edit - Further investigation indicates that I'm being harsh on Atwood. Apparently she was under pressure from the publisher not mention the term Science fiction in relation to her work. They (and via the pressure imposed, her) feared being frozen out of mainstream recognition and literary acceptance. So she's tried to redefine herself out the genre.

the term brings confusion.  SFF (SciFi/Fantasy) is a catch all term that is way less douchy, and embraces it's nature.  SpecFic is just fandom trying too hard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This reminds me off all the insane sub genres of MEtal we have these days.

 

Also, I support blaming the publishers. Let's do that.

Edited by Darth Richard II

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We now have the series name/book titles and expected release date.

Quote

The next project for Marlon James — the Man Booker Prize-winning author of 2014’s A Brief History of Seven Killings — is an epic fantasy trilogy to be published by Riverhead Books, EW can announce exclusively.

Titled The Dark Star Trilogythe three novels (Black Leopard, Red Wolf; Moon Witch, Night Devil; The Boy and the Dark Star) follow three characters — the Tracker, the Moon Witch, and the Boy. According to the official summary, they are “locked in a dungeon in the castle of a dying king, awaiting torture and trial for the death of a child. They were three of eight mercenaries who had been hired to find the child; the search, expected to take two months, took nine years. In the end, five of the eight mercenaries, as well as the child, were dead.” The three novels will unravel each character’s tale of what happened over those nine years — one perspective per book — as James builds a rich world brimming with African myths and legends, fantastical creatures, and other accouterments of his own imagination. 

James spoke to EW by phone from his home in Minnesota about the ways Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, and tales of ancient African mythology inspired this series. He hopes the first book will be finished in time for a possible Fall 2018 publication.

Full interview - http://ew.com/books/2017/01/10/marlon-james-dark-star-fantasy-trilogy/

 

Edited by AncalagonTheBlack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

We now have the series name/book titles and expected release date.

 

Interesting concept.

Also funny that after all the debate over the Spec Fic classification in this thread, the release flat out calls it epic fantasy. :lol: 

Edited by Rhom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man I was hyped for this before I even knew anything about it. I really can't wait. I'm going to end up breaking my brand new rule and starting another unfinished series again <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×