Jon's Small Council and Kingsguard

[BlackLightning]

On 2/25/2019 at 10:01 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

GRRM could write that story of her freeing the Dothraki slaves and reform the treatment of women as a member of the inner circle and write it well. She could have been a revolutionary from within and learned something from those older women but if I had to guess it was more important for her to have the agency to sack her own cities and take on a conquerors arc. That had a consequence, though, in that the Dothraki is not really a cultural group she respects, otherwise she wouldnt use them for more power for herself.

Need I remind you that season 6 of Game of Thrones is an adaptation of The Winds of Winter, a book that has yet to be completed and published.

What makes you think that what we saw in season 6 is what we will get? Are you even aware of what's happening in the books? The move from page to screen has not been uniform and it has not been seamless. The creators made major changes even before they caught up with the books.

So again, what makes you think that GRRM isn't writing that story of how she joins the Dosh Khaleen, becomes the most influential/powerful woman on the Dosh Khaleen and takes over the Dothraki "peacefully" from there.

 

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In other news, I can't believe we are even discussing whether or not Cersei is the same as Daenerys. Like...are you kidding me? Daenerys' hands are not clean but she saves and protects people. Cersei has torn that country and her own family apart on account of her selfish, scheming ambitious nature and her petty jealousies. She protects no one if she cannot see how it benefits her.

Comparing the two of them is blowing my mind. They are night and day.

[Rose of Red Lake]

2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Need I remind you that season 6 of Game of Thrones is an adaptation of The Winds of Winter, a book that has yet to be completed and published.

What makes you think that what we saw in season 6 is what we will get? Are you even aware of what's happening in the books? The move from page to screen has not been uniform and it has not been seamless. The creators made major changes even before they caught up with the books.

So again, what makes you think that GRRM isn't writing that story of how she joins the Dosh Khaleen, becomes the most influential/powerful woman on the Dosh Khaleen and takes over the Dothraki "peacefully" from there.

Jon's wildling arc stretched across three books, from grunt to LC. Dany's time with the Dosh Khaleen will be very abbreviated in comparison; she will also have the benefit of a full grown dragon at her disposal so she's not really starting at the bottom. These are differences already built into the novels.

[BlackLightning]

10 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Jon's wildling arc stretched across three books, from grunt to LC. Dany's time with the Dosh Khaleen will be very abbreviated in comparison; she will also have the benefit of a full grown dragon at her disposal so she's not really starting at the bottom. These are differences already built into the novels. 

Technically, Daenerys' Dothraki arc began in Game (THAT'S her grunt-level bottom) and her Dothraki arc had a nice interlude in Clash. Yep, it's true: the Dothraki were her only source of power back then.

Her Dothraki arc got put on pause in Storm but before her last chapter in Dance, Dothraki elements started popping back up here and there. So, while Daenerys' Dothraki arc is nowhere near as linear as Jon's wildling arc, it is still very present and real. Her LC moment of the Dothraki specifically will be in Winds.

And let's be honest, Jon didn't start off from the bottom either. He had a direwolf at his disposal, the best education a Westerosi lordling could ask for--exceptional considering that he is baseborn--and he was handpicked to be the steward of the LC. Said LC was not only grooming him for leadership but the Lord Commander gifted Jon with a Valyrian steel sword.

[Rose of Red Lake]

1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Technically, Daenerys' Dothraki arc began in Game (THAT'S her grunt-level bottom) and her Dothraki arc had a nice interlude in Clash. Yep, it's true: the Dothraki were her only source of power back then.

 

Well sure, if Dany's Dothraki arc is about her becoming another conqueror I can see that. Are you so excited for her to be the khal of khals who tears down the stone houses of the milk men and destroys forests and fields everywhere she goes?

Anyway, you're extending this into an entire analysis of Dany's arc when that's not the point. My original post was about what happens at the end of Book 1 in comparison to the other characters.

Dany loses power at the end of Game. The idea that she could be working within the confines of an organization like the Dosh Khaleen for the next several books after that, but she did not, is what makes Jon and Dany foils, not parallelling characters. While Dany sacks cities and gains followers, Jon is a grunt and a spy with the wildlings. She attacks Astapor; he refuses to help attack the realm. Moreover, as she's doing that, Sansa is being forcibly married to her enemies. So she's gained power from her dragons while Jon and Sansa have minimal power to control what happens to them. 

You're further proving my point that they are foils when you mention them at the start of the book. Dany has no power, Jon has privileges and comforts. Dany is thankful for small things; Jon is spoiled. 

[BlackLightning]

9 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Well sure, if Dany's Dothraki arc is about her becoming another conqueror I can see that. Are you so excited for her to be the khal of khals who tears down the stone houses of the milk men and destroys forests and fields everywhere she goes?

Anyway, you're extending this into an entire analysis of Dany's arc when that's not the point. My original post was about what happens at the end of Book 1 in comparison to the other characters.

Dany loses power at the end of Game. The idea that she could be working within the confines of an organization like the Dosh Khaleen for the next several books after that, but she did not, is what makes Jon and Dany foils, not parallelling characters. While Dany sacks cities and gains followers, Jon is a grunt and a spy with the wildlings. She attacks Astapor; he refuses to help attack the realm. Moreover, as she's doing that, Sansa is being forcibly married to her enemies. So she's gained power from her dragons while Jon and Sansa have minimal power to control what happens to them. 

You're further proving my point that they are foils when you mention them at the start of the book. Dany has no power, Jon has privileges and comforts. Dany is thankful for small things; Jon is spoiled. 

Yeah okay, I see what you're saying. You're right.

I'm still not sure though about your claim that Daenerys doesn't respect the Dothraki culture. She thinks about it often and favorably, particularly in Dance.