Up in Smoke: Drug Legalization and Dealing

[Spockydog]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Thoughts on Prince Harry wearing a Nazi uniform to a party? Because on the spectrum of awfulness, Nazis trump Klansmen IMO.  

I was just about to say that the lad was only honouring his family heritage. But he's got no blood connection to the Windsors.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

Your math is weird.  A dozen people wanting an ounce a piece means you need 12 ounces.  That's 3/4 lb.  And even  if you're moving less, like a quarter pound a week, assuming one person goes through an 1/8 oz a week, you're keeping 32 people high.  

Even if youre just selling ounces, where does it go?  It's not like 4 people are each smoking an ounce a week.  

The math isn't weird. It only would be if everyone came at once. You can move one QP in two days and another in a week. It's too random to really speculate. 

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Can't believe you're doubling down on the principled highschool weed dealer, Johnny Appleweed angle.  Sorry dude but this is laughable and certainly eye-roll worthy.

Not sure why you're so focused on HS. That was what DMC was talking about. I thought I had made in clear that I scaled up in college given that I attended one of the larger universities in the country. 

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

And on the spectrum of societal impact it's close to zero. The Virginia thing matters because there are decision-makers involved. Was that a trick question?

 No, just curious. I referenced Harry because it was one of the first things that came to mind when the story broke. My argument this entire time has been that younger people do dumb things, and that unless the act was completely heinous, they should be allowed to grow and not be overly judged for what they did when they're older. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

I was just about to say that the lad was only honouring his family heritage. But he's got no blood connection to the Windsors.

You win the interwebs today. The layers to this are great. 

And now that begs the question, is the American princess not actually a princess? 

[Larry of the Lawn]

22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The math isn't weird. It only would be if everyone came at once. You can move one QP in two days and another in a week. It's too random to really speculate. 

Not sure why you're so focused on HS. That was what DMC was talking about. 

Apologies if I confused the specifics of you vs DMC.  

Your math is still fucked.  You're still talking about moving a quarter pound in a week.  That was the figure I was working from, and I stand by my statement.  I'm not sure how having a dozen people wanting an ounce each is some kind of rebuttal to my point that moving a quarter pound a week is providing weed to a pretty large group of people.  

And I'm focused on HS because that's the time period where I think weed actually has more negative effects, which I mentioned in at least one earlier post.  Apologies if that criticism doesn't pertain to you.  

And, from the beginning, my point wasn't that you should be judged harshly or punished - it was that what you were doing certainly wasn't some kind of positive, and it's probably something that would hurt any candidate.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Apologies if I confused the specifics of you vs DMC.  

Your math is still fucked.  You're still talking about moving a quarter pound in a week.  That was the figure I was working from, and I stand by my statement.  I'm not sure how having a dozen people wanting an ounce each is some kind of rebuttal to my point that moving a quarter pound a week is providing weed to a pretty large group of people.  

No need to apologize,, but you're still conflating us. He said a QP a week. And yes, your math is right there. For me, there were some weeks where I wouldn't move half of a QP. There were others where I could easily flip a HP. It mainly depended on well others selling went and if a group like say a frat house wanted to throw down for a party one week and then not again until a few weekends later. The smaller amounts were fairly consistent, but the larger ones were in flux. You also have to consider summer semester versus when the campus was in full swing. Like I said before, it's hard for me to give you a consistent average.

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And I'm focused on HS because that's the time period where I think weed actually has more negative effects, which I mentioned in at least one earlier post.  Apologies if that criticism doesn't pertain to you.   

Nah, HS for me was mainly just hooking up friends and teammates. Maybe a zip on a good week not including parties?

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And, from the beginning, my point wasn't that you should be judged harshly or punished - it was that what you were doing certainly wasn't some kind of positive, and it's probably something that would hurt any candidate. 

I think it's a positive to be on the right side of history. That was part of the point I was trying to make. If I ran for office today there would be no way to spin it positively, so all I could do is be honest about it because oppo research would likely dig it up. But 10, 15 years from now? I think it could be because I'm assuming it will be legal nation wide and not taboo at all. 

[karaddin]

Another benefit of decriminalization is the potential for unexpected uses to come to light. For example there is a cannabis infused lube for sale in Washington that takes advantage of the vasodilating properties. It can be very beneficial for particularly women struggling with psychological issues around sex. 

New beneficial uses only happen when things are legal.

[mormont]

17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And is making assumptions not a bad look too?

It can be, yeah. But I think you're confused about where the assumption lies. You're assuming that people read and remember a post made days ago on a different thread that is of limited relevance in responding to the posts you've made here, where you say (and still seem to believe) that dealing is in itself an act of principled protest. That's the point at hand, and it has been dealt with, so let's move on.

17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Thoughts on Prince Harry wearing a Nazi uniform to a party? Because on the spectrum of awfulness, Nazis trump Klansmen IMO.  

Personally, I've not forgiven or forgotten that and am disgusted by the way the media has decided to pretend it never happened in order to support their current preferred narrative. But, sadly, we can't get rid of royals in the way we can politicians. One of many reasons I'm anti-monarchist.

[Seli]

I wish the Netherlands would start moving again, because things are getting worse here. Use has been decriminalized for ages of course, and facilities to support existing heroin etc users manage do exist up to the point of supplying heroin to people they know can never quit.

But there are still huge issues at the supply side, sale of weed at recognized points has been condoned for decades. However, growing and stocking for sale is still illegal. Which has lead to professionalization of criminals and criminal organizations getting more and more influential. At the same time requests from municipalities to start controlled growing of weed has been blocked by national politics time and time again. 

Synthetic drugs are a separate issue, we harbour some of the biggest illegal producers and they and up polluting everywhere when they dump their toxic waste.

[HexMachina]

I know that one of the police higher ups up here has wanted to set up safe spots for drug users for some time now. Not sure where that idea is at currently, if anywhere. I should read more into it, but in theory I support that idea. Takes a burden of both police and the NHS by providing a safe, clean environment where stuff like infection and overdose and so on are less likely. But I haven’t read too deeply into it so I’m not committed to that position

[Rippounet]

On 2/9/2019 at 12:30 AM, Tywin et al. said:

I think it's a positive to be on the right side of history. That was part of the point I was trying to make. If I ran for office today there would be no way to spin it positively, so all I could do is be honest about it because oppo research would likely dig it up. But 10, 15 years from now? I think it could be because I'm assuming it will be legal nation wide and not taboo at all. 

Are prohibition-era bootleggers viewed positively today?

I remember reading comics about that period as a kid... This series specifically:
https://bit.ly/2Do3whn
https://bit.ly/2E2OAXF
It seems to that the view on people who profited from prohibition is neutral at best... Though of course, alcohol is considerably worse than weed in pretty much every single respect I can think of.

[Martell Spy]

7 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Are prohibition-era bootleggers viewed positively today?

I remember reading comics about that period as a kid... This series specifically:
https://bit.ly/2Do3whn
https://bit.ly/2E2OAXF
It seems to that the view on people who profited from prohibition is neutral at best... Though of course, alcohol is considerably worse than weed in pretty much every single respect I can think of.

It really depends. Especially on the level of violence used. I don't think anyone thinks very well of the major mafia figures, killing over access to the markets. But some guy running a secret tavern? 

I'm not sure much of the positive effects of drugs have been discussed here. There's been a lot of focus on the societal costs and downsides. I've had some anxiety issues in my life. And I did not start drinking until 38 and did not try pot until over 40. I think I really could have benefited from some more calming. Part of severe anxiety is being wound up really tight, especially when you are young.

I had a positive drug experience when I was around 30, not involving pot or alcohol. Quite accidental. It was a drug prescribed by a doctor for symptoms relating to a disease I have. It turned out it was a beta-blocker. Anyway, it made me relax incredibly, but not with a high like alcohol or pot. Just those experiences taking that drug had a permanent positive effect on my mental health. I was never quite so tightly wound after that. Not completely cured, I'm not claiming that, but it was pretty huge. And I didn't take the drug very long. No other doctor ever prescribed it again.

 

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

I don't think anyone thinks very well of the major mafia figures, killing over access to the markets. But some guy running a secret tavern?

The problem is that the two were always linked. That guy running a secret tavern would generally have been part of a larger organization, rather than a courageous and independent entrepreneur.

If we take the exemple of pot in Europe, one major argument in favor of widespread legalization is precisely to allow drug dealers to set up legal businesses without the need to use criminal networks as suppliers. Drug dealing is seldom viewed as an evil in itself because for better or worse we've accepted the societal impact of drug consumption, but the fact that such consumption fuels huge mafias tends to be viewed as the real problem.

Not that it's an argument I love, since it kind of obscures the negative effects of the drugs themselves and leads to thinking that it's entirely up to individuals to use reasonably.

Now the positive effect of drugs... I don't think I've ever met someone against the legalization of medical use, so it's not surprising we wouldn't even mention this.

[Fragile Bird]

I haven’t used any illegal substances in decades. I don’t smoke, and I had a busy life, so I just wasn’t interested. I got into wine instead. And I’m the classic cheap date, unable to drink much, so I never became addicted to wine either.

However. I play Pokémon Go, as some of you know, and most of my fellow friends are young. One of my friends works in a lab (now that marijuana is legal in Canada) and gave me a sample of a  - am I using the right initials - CBD cream, with none of the chemical that gets you high, to be used topically for aches and pains. Since mentioning this to friends I have put in an order for 4 more pots of this cream for the senior citizen crowd. Most of us don’t smoke.

Since legalization in Canada the demand for all forms of marijuana have out-stripped supply. I know I saw a story that Quebec has allowed Pot shops to be open only 3 days a week because of shortages. Demand is very strong across the country!

I have also read stories saying all the marijuana companies in Canada will be wiped out by cheap supplies from South America. Prognosticators are giving them 2 years, at most.

And as for the OP, all I know about the safe injection sites in Vancouver is that they have saved lives. Sites were opened in Ontario, but we have a new conservative government that is very hostile to them. I think they are shutting them down here, or planning to. I’ve not kept up with the issue.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Are prohibition-era bootleggers viewed positively today?

I remember reading comics about that period as a kid... This series specifically:
https://bit.ly/2Do3whn
https://bit.ly/2E2OAXF
It seems to that the view on people who profited from prohibition is neutral at best... Though of course, alcohol is considerably worse than weed in pretty much every single respect I can think of.

Maybe this is a cultural difference, but yes, here in the U.S. they are.

11 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I haven’t used any illegal substances in decades. I don’t smoke, and I had a busy life, so I just wasn’t interested. I got into wine instead. And I’m the classic cheap date, unable to drink much, so I never became addicted to wine either.

However. I play Pokémon Go, as some of you know, and most of my fellow friends are young. One of my friends works in a lab (now that marijuana is legal in Canada) and gave me a sample of a  - am I using the right initials - CBD cream, with none of the chemical that gets you high, to be used topically for aches and pains. Since mentioning this to friends I have put in an order for 4 more pots of this cream for the senior citizen crowd. Most of us don’t smoke.

Since legalization in Canada the demand for all forms of marijuana have out-stripped supply. I know I saw a story that Quebec has allowed Pot shops to be open only 3 days a week because of shortages. Demand is very strong across the country!

I have also read stories saying all the marijuana companies in Canada will be wiped out by cheap supplies from South America. Prognosticators are giving them 2 years, at most.

And as for the OP, all I know about the safe injection sites in Vancouver is that they have saved lives. Sites were opened in Ontario, but we have a new conservative government that is very hostile to them. I think they are shutting them down here, or planning to. I’ve not kept up with the issue.

Oh BIRD!.....

[Fragile Bird]

31 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Maybe this is a cultural difference, but yes, here in the U.S. they are.

Oh BIRD!.....

Hey! The legalization of pot is wildly popular here!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Hey! The legalization of pot is wildly popular here!

It’s wildly popular everywhere it gets legalized because only idiots think it should be against the law to smoke a plant that makes you giggle.

And next time you go Mon’ing, eat a brownie beforehand.  

Fly birdie fly!

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Maybe this is a cultural difference, but yes, here in the U.S. they are.

Ok.
Yeah, as I pointed out upthread, there are indeed cultural differences at play here.

47 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

a plant that makes you giggle.

Even back when I was 150% in favor of legalization I don't think I'd have described cannabis as merely making people giggle.

[Larry of the Lawn]

CBD is legal, it's only THC that's still illegal most places.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

29 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Ok.
Yeah, as I pointed out upthread, there are indeed cultural differences at play here.

Even back when I was 150% in favor of legalization I don't think I'd have described cannabis as merely making people giggle.

Did France even have a prohibition era in relatively recent times?

Also, I thought it was pretty clear that I was just joking around by framing it that way. To ruffle the BIRD!’s feathers and all that.  

[Rippounet]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Did France even have a prohibition era in relatively recent times?

Of alcohol? lol, no. It wasn't that long ago that an ad' campaign promoted "a last one for the road" for drivers. It's still a popular expression, though used as a joke these days (well, except with some older folks and/or in some regions ^^).
https://bit.ly/2UR5cXK
It's kinda paradoxical that American bootleggers would *not* be seen as heroes in France tbh...

There's something really weird happening here as regards drugs broadly speaking. On the one hand there's been a small loosening of the law against weed. On the other hand, there's been small changes to prevent minors from having easy access to alcohol and tobacco (until very recently the legal drinking age was 16).
So you get tons of debates on the evils of various products, which probably helps explain my own grimness on the issue. People only recently realized just how bad alcohol is, while at the same time the legalization of weed in the US or Canada is obviously pushing our societies in another direction. Lines get blurred because traditionally people would defend alcohol as rather innocuous while condemning the use of other drugs, so now that it's known that weed is the innocuous drug and alcohol the big bad one, many people struggle to find a coherent stance to defend.