Jump to content

US Politics: The Accountability Problem


Fragile Bird

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, dornishpen said:

What made it antisemitic was the "its all about the benjamins" which dog whistles the antisemitic canard of Jews with money manipulating things behind scenes.

Like I said, the "Benjamins" tweet bothered me most as well.  If that's antisemitic to you, fair enough.  I'm sorry.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

It should be noted that Oman has also criticized the Saudi Arabia government as well, so using the logic of her critics, that would make her an Islamophobe, which she clearly isn't.

Her name is Ilhan Omar, stop calling her Oman like she's the country on the southeastern Arabian peninsula.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DMC said:

 

This, like, is the exact opposite of local politics.  The entirety of the House Democratic leadership didn't admonish her because of local politics.

Just in that district, the tensions between the Jewish and Muslim constituents have a thing, it has been going on since Keith Ellison, so the national bent just happens to be local too.  I mean, I have lived in that district and know people in that district.  (I am in Minnesota) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

Just in that district, the tensions between the Jewish and Muslim constituents have a thing, it has been going on since Keith Ellison, so the national bent just happens to be local too.  I mean, I have lived in that district and know people in that district.  (I am in Minnesota) 

I get that.  But that's not what this is about.  Unfortunately, now it may be about every Dem having to condemn BDS, when maybe acceptance could have been a long-term possibility.  This is the national politics effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

It should be noted that Omar has also criticized the Saudi Arabia government as well, so using the logic of her critics, that would make her an Islamophobe, which she clearly isn't.

You should stop strawmanning. I did not say and I have not seen anyone else say that all criticism of AIPAC or Israel is antisemitic, using old antisemitic canards to criticize Israel and AIPAC is what makes her tweets antisemitic. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

You should stop strawmanning.

And you should stop trolling.  He wasn't even addressing you in that post, so why are you taking issue? 

Ya give ya take, ya stand ya kneel, at the end what of it?  The facts of life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

You should stop strawmanning. I did not say and I have not seen anyone else say that all criticism of AIPAC or Israel is antisemitic, using old antisemitic canards to criticize Israel and AIPAC is what makes her tweets antisemitic. 

Since you apparently know, can you tell me what the antisemitic canards were that she used and what they mean? All I have seen is a tweet referring to 'Benjamin'. Does this refer to a commonly used Jewish name or something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Since you apparently know, can you tell me what the antisemitic canards were that she used and what they mean? All I have seen is a tweet referring to 'Benjamin'. Does this refer to a commonly used Jewish name or something?

Benjamins is well known slang for $100 bills (because Benjamin Franklin is on them), "it's all about the benjamins" means "it's all about money". Jews and money, Jews being rich, Jews using money to secretly manipulate or control things are all extremely old and common themes in antisemitism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

Benjamins is well known slang for $100 bills (because Benjamin Franklin is on them), "it's all about the benjamins" means "it's all about money". Jews and money, Jews being rich, Jews using money to secretly manipulate or control things are all extremely old and common themes in antisemitism.

Oh, wait, you said 'canards', plural. Was there something else as well?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, lokisnow said:

and we are probably going to build that 4 billion tunnel and about two thirds of that money is pure rent escalation going into the consultants pocket caused by the gutting of the civil service who really ought to know better.

Don't worry, the politicians out here have learnt from the example and are getting really good at funnelling public money to their donors/mates as well. We're building a rail extension in Sydney as well, and instead of building it in house with the same platform size and gauge, they instead went with a private company and mandated that it had to be a completely different "metro" style train with almost no seats despite it being a long distance commute. This just so happened to require them to shut down the existing stations and refit them to match the new trains, and that will be pushed out to connect to another existing line which will also be shut down and converted.

And the kicker? Gosh darnit, wouldn't you know that these previously publicly owned rail lines are going to be privately operated after all is said and done, so they spend several multiples more than is required just to have to pay a private company to operate rail lines they used to run in house. In typing this post I've just realised I haven't even seen it reported whether the infrastructure will be privately owned/whether they even had to buy it if so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Oh, wait, you said 'canards', plural. Was there something else as well?

Several years ago she tweeted that "Israel has hypnotized the world". Jews as malign sorcerers is another old antisemitic theme. It should be noted that within the past couple weeks she has acknowledged this tweet was antisemitic and apologized. In an interview I saw I thought she seemed genuinely apologetic and committed to leaning more about antisemism and changing her own antisemitic beliefs and stereotypes. After the benjamins thing I'm not so sure anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, dornishpen said:

It's not the truth. AIPAC isn't a PAC and doesn't donate to political campaigns, they're a lobby, a strong one, but are maybe #20 overall. It's entirely possible to criticize AIPAC, Israel, Netanyahu etc without being antisemitic, but this, this kind of linkage to money and greed was absolutely antisemitic whether that's what she intended or not.

How do you think AIPAC infuelnce if there is not a implicit access to a well heeled donor class? In the U.S money has a very strong role in politics.

This is a few select points from a Mondoweiss article

Quote

Consider these examples of the Democrats and the Jewish Israel lobby:

–AIPAC reaches out to Democratic candidates; and it scripts the Middle East policy of congressional campaigns before they have campaign managers, just so they can get money from the “Jewish community,” says the head of Emily’s List.

–The 29 standing ovations for Netanyahu in the Congress in 2011 — when he was lecturing Obama on settlements — were led by Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who was then head of fundraising for the Democratic Congress as the party chair and who shares a large donor with Netanyahu.

–At that time, Obama, facing reelection, went back on his vow to stop the settlements and vetoed the United Nations Security Council resolution against settlements. His former aide Ben Rhodes says that Obama felt pressure from “Jewish donors.”

“Netanyahu’s smack at Obama [the lecture] came just as the 2012 presidential campaign cycle was cranking up, and it succeeded in igniting a firestorm of criticism… A number of congressional Democrats distanced themselves from the speech [in which Obama said the ’67 borders were the basis for negotiations]. I was given a list of leading Jewish donors to call to reassure them of Obama’s pro-Israel bona fides. It was far too painful to wade into these waters with no prospect of success. Netanyahu had mastered a kind of leverage: using political pressure within the United States to demoralize any meaningful push for peace just as he used settlements as a means of demoralizing the Palestinians…”

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/02/israel-christians-republicans/

 

FWIW, your reply is to a fellow Jew so I very much understand the concern of Anti-Semitism. At the sametime I think that are very extreme position have been mainstreamed as it concern the Israel and Palestine. That U.S is viewed to be as a main broker in the dispute make these positions very concerning. I understand how some of Rep. Omar remarks can slipped into some terrible stereotypes.  I also know that there can be almost no criticism of Israel without being called accused of Israel. Considering what is to be the U.S role I find that extremely troubling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I’ve seen a lot of celebs of Jewish decent support her comments, and probably the same amount decry them, so I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as a lot of people are saying.

I'm not Jewish and am loathe to get in on this fight but the term 'all about the Benjamins' is  hip-hop terminology as far as I ever knew. And that's what my first read was, an attempt to be hip but she done hopped on the wrong toes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I’ve seen a lot of celebs of Jewish decent support her comments, and probably the same amount decry them, so I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as a lot of people are saying.

Oh, man, Jewish celebs supported her?!?  Well, let me try to get excited about that......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dornishpen said:

Benjamins is well known slang for $100 bills (because Benjamin Franklin is on them), "it's all about the benjamins" means "it's all about money". Jews and money, Jews being rich, Jews using money to secretly manipulate or control things are all extremely old and common themes in antisemitism.

This seems a really unreasonablly low bar man. You’re basically saying her comments were anti-Semitic because she’s saying AIPAC(a lobbying firm) is paying people to support Israel. You say one can critique AIPAC. Fine. Which critiques of the organization do you find as valid? Do you honestly see any insistence that there are politicians who support Israel in part because they were paid to anti-Semitic in it of itself?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...