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Alexander Leonard

Do you think Lyanna Stark regretted for what she had done with Rhaegar when she was lying on her death bed?

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1 hour ago, Alexander Leonard said:

Their relationship unleashed such chaos in the Seven Kingdoms, destroyed her own family as well as his.

Based on what we’ve been told by the books and tv series, it seems like her main priority was keeping her baby safe from anyone who’d do Rhaegar’s child harm. So I doubt that she spent much time regretting anything she did, but you never know.

To be honest, what did she even know? Did she know that her father and brother were killed? Did she know that the Targaryens were overthrown? I don’t trust the show, but the books don’t make anything clear. We know the Kingsguard protecting her know about the events of the war, but does Lyanna? I can definitely imagine Rhaegar wishing to keep her in the dark to avoid any conflict or awkwardness into their joyful tryst. 

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We really don't know enough about what happened to know if she regretted it or not. If she is in fact Jon's mother, then I doubt she regrets his birth, but she probably does feel guilty about all the people who died in the Rebellion, along with her father and brother. For all we know, she left some sort of letter saying that she left with Rhaegar, but someone like Lysa or Baelish intercepted it, in which case she would probably be confused about why Brandon did what he did. 

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I can imagine that Lyanna had all kinds of mixed feelings. She was probably dismayed at how the menfolk over-reacted: her brother Brandon storming into King's Landing with his threats against the Crown Prince, and the King killing both Brandon and their father; Robert Baratheon, the big oaf, deciding to call his banners and rebel against the Iron Throne; wise old Jon Arryn, who should have been able to smooth things over, joining in the rebellion... She would have to feel a certain level of guilt, along with exasperation.

We don't know the marital status of her and Rhaegar, which would make a big difference. Did Elia know? Might she have consented? Did Rhaegar take Lyanna as a second wife, which was sept-approved for Targaryens? All of these would affect how Lyanna felt about what is clearly an elopement, not a kidnapping & rape.

Then there are the prophesies which Rhaegar and Maester Aemon corresponded about. Was Lyanna informed? Was she looking forward to doing her part?

I think we should not try to pin Lyanna down to just one or two trite emotions. She'd have nearly a year to think about it, and a person can think a lot in a year.

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I'd imagine Rhaegar would want to keep all of the bad news away from her if he was worried about her pregnancy. Pregnancy was dangerous enough for mother and child as it is, adding extreme stress from horrible news could make things worse. Rhaegar also stayed with her through most of the war in a place that was fairly untouched by the war. Rhaegar and Dorne didn't leave for the war until before the final battle, so he could have been filtering information to Lyanna that whole time. Then once he left for the capitol he could have told his KG not to tell her anything else that might upset her and her pregnancy. This is all amusing that she was pregnant, which I'm inclined to believe. 

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35 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I'd imagine Rhaegar would want to keep all of the bad news away from her if he was worried about her pregnancy. Pregnancy was dangerous enough for mother and child as it is, adding extreme stress from horrible news could make things worse. Rhaegar also stayed with her through most of the war in a place that was fairly untouched by the war. Rhaegar and Dorne didn't leave for the war until before the final battle, so he could have been filtering information to Lyanna that whole time. Then once he left for the capitol he could have told his KG not to tell her anything else that might upset her and her pregnancy. This is all amusing that she was pregnant, which I'm inclined to believe. 

I agree, she probably knew nothing. It’s the Tower of Joy, not the Tower of Living-with-my-baby-daddy-in-isolation-while-trying-to-repress-memories-of-my-deceased-family-and-friends-who-are-all-dying-to-save-me-except-the-one-I’ll-emotionally-blackmail-to-ruin-his-reputation-for-my-sake.

 

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On 2/8/2019 at 4:40 PM, zandru said:

I can imagine that Lyanna had all kinds of mixed feelings. She was probably dismayed at how the menfolk over-reacted: her brother Brandon storming into King's Landing with his threats against the Crown Prince, and the King killing both Brandon and their father; Robert Baratheon, the big oaf, deciding to call his banners and rebel against the Iron Throne; wise old Jon Arryn, who should have been able to smooth things over, joining in the rebellion...

Let's assume that Lyanna and Rhaegar ran away together willingly.  In this case she has no right to be dismayed at the way the "men-folk" reacted.  How should they have reacted? 

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Based on the fact that Rhaegar really didn't want to be found, I doubt they were receiving any information about the war.  Perhaps when they realized what they had caused, they both had serious regrets

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Once she knew she was Dying, probably thought of Rhaegar & the Baby more than anything else. 

She loved her family & I'm sure she often questioned her decisions as we all do, but I do think hers was a deep love for Rhaegar.

 

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Pardon me but I'm not sure about the timeline here. So Rhaegar 'kidnaps' Lyanna then takes her directly to the Tower of Joy? If this is the case then she probably knew NOTHING at all. I don't think Rhaegar would have allowed it. Not because he was controlling but because he wanted to spare Lyanna the details. He probably lied to her and said that everything was fine. She probably didn't believe him but what else could she do? Obviously he returns to Kings Landing and probably tells her that he's going to answer for his 'crimes' and leaves the Kingsuard at the Tower but he never comes back? The Kingsguard probably don't tell her anything either.

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5 hours ago, flaydagawd said:

Pardon me but I'm not sure about the timeline here. So Rhaegar 'kidnaps' Lyanna then takes her directly to the Tower of Joy? If this is the case then she probably knew NOTHING at all. I don't think Rhaegar would have allowed it. Not because he was controlling but because he wanted to spare Lyanna the details. He probably lied to her and said that everything was fine. She probably didn't believe him but what else could she do? Obviously he returns to Kings Landing and probably tells her that he's going to answer for his 'crimes' and leaves the Kingsuard at the Tower but he never comes back? The Kingsguard probably don't tell her anything either.

We don’t actually know what happened/where they went/who was with them when. We know he ‘kidnapped’ her (*insert preferred choice of kidnap, rescue, willingly accompanied etc.*) in the Riverlands. Then they are absent from our knowledge for a period. Could have gone to the ToJ. Could have gone to KL (after all, that was where Brandon rode looking for him. Doesn’t mean he was there’s, but could have been). Could have gone to DS or Oldtown or the Summer Isles for all we know. Rhaegar doesn’t return to the narrative until Hightower tracks him down and sends him back to Aerys. Where he was in the meantime, who knows? 

Im not convinced they spent the entire Rebellion in the TOJ. 

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I like to think she actually jumped for joy and cracked her head on a wooden beam, as she lay there, bleeding out, Neddard unable to help, she asked him to promise to make her death sound a little more ambiguous than it really was

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On 2/8/2019 at 9:40 PM, zandru said:

Then there are the prophesies which Rhaegar and Maester Aemon corresponded about. Was Lyanna informed? Was she looking forward to doing her part?

I think we should not try to pin Lyanna down to just one or two trite emotions. She'd have nearly a year to think about it, and a person can think a lot in a year.

I'm currently of the toying with the idea that Howland Reed, under the guise of TKOTLT, might have went to Harrenhal and made Lyanna aware of certain prophetic information regarding the Others/COTF/PTWP, info which might have further backed up any such future talk from Rhaegar. Whatever the Crannogman learned at the Isle of Faces obviously left a lasting impression on the man, to the point he would turn the events into a tale for his children. Reed's decision - apparently motivated by the "magical" Green Men" - to head to the tourney that Rhaegar would publicly disrespect his wife by crowning Lyanna as QOL&B, seems awfully convenient. 

I'm not sure what Howland would have to say to make Lyanna believe him, but we have to remember the power of the weirwood net, and how Greenseers like BR or Bran have been shown to project images into other peoples minds. 

In the roughly year long period that followed the Harrenhal tourney, I assume the Prince of Dragonstone would have spent a long time preaching to Lyanna about the nature of the Prince That Was Promised. Said prophecy seems to be a Targaryen story, but one could imagine the Northern girl perhaps connecting such events with her own family's tales of the Long Night. Should Lyanna has drawn such a comparison, I think there's a solid chance she would have grown invested in Rhaegar's ambitions, maybe even to the point of falling for him. The inhumanly beautiful Dragon Prince, a skilled warrior, mind and musician who wants to save the world from the evil ice monsters - sounds like he could be quite the catch to a 14 year old, doesn't he? Having grown up around family members who were constantly warning her about the dangers of an impending winter, there's a possibility that Stark would be more likely to believe such tales of prophecy and magic.

In regards to the OP. If Lyanna did indeed become a PTWP die hard, I could imagine her maybe feeling a sense of pride/duty regarding the Rhaegar situation. This is all speculation, to be fair, but I reckon on her deathbed she might have regretted all the bloodshed and misery caused by RR, but could also have been comforted by the knowledge that she had just birthed the child who would surely grow to defend humanity from the forces of the cold.

 

 

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Well Lyanna wanted to be burried next to her brother and father, whatever happened between RL, Lyanna considered herself worthy to be burried in the crypts after the shitstorm they started. 

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4 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

Well Lyanna wanted to be burried next to her brother and father, whatever happened between RL, Lyanna considered herself worthy to be burried in the crypts after the shitstorm they started. 

That's what Ned says, we don't know for sure. 

I think Rhaegar shared the whole prophecy with her and probably Elia. So like others said her concern was foremost for that child to survive as it had already cost the realm so much. 

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1 hour ago, Lady Valicious said:

That's what Ned says, we don't know for sure. 

I think Rhaegar shared the whole prophecy with her and probably Elia. So like others said her concern was foremost for that child to survive as it had already cost the realm so much. 

No, Elia had no hand in her own demise and Lyanna wanted to be burried with her family, no one thought about reggity and his delusions

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I do wonder how she felt about her father, brother and other heirs of the North that she knew being killed/murdered if she knew at all. It is possible that Rheagar kept her in the dark so as to not upset her Pregnancy. We just need more info if we can get any at all regarding this. She is on of the following: a victim, idiot or a villain.

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"Do you think Lyanna Stark regretted for what she had done with Rhaegar when she was lying on her death bed?"

On her death bed? Direcly after giving birth, after hours of labour? I do´nt think that she could think of anything but her baby and pain and her worsening healt and her fear never to see him growing up. I do´nt think that she had time to recap her past and what she had done. 

 

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