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Platypus Rex

Poll: Is Jon Snow the son of a Dayne?

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yes

“The same guy asked about the Daynes and the Sword of the Morning, asking how that title is decided. George said the Sword of the Morning is always a member of House Dayne, someone who is deemed worthy of wielding Dawn as decided within the House, that whoever it is would have to earn the right to wield it.”

What is the definition of the phrase "member of House Dayne"?  And (since this apparently is a paraphrase from memory) are we even sure that those were GRRM's exact words?

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4 minutes ago, divica said:

The only character that I can see going to get the sword at the moment is darkstar. He is a great swordsman, a dayne and asshole enough to think he should have the sword. .

But he is "of the night".

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1 minute ago, Platypus Rex said:

What is the definition of the phrase "member of House Dayne"?  And (since this apparently is a paraphrase from memory) are we even sure that those were GRRM's exact words?

I think it is equally important to take into account when grrm said it because he was planning to have a 5 year gap that would qualify ned dayne to be the sword in the morning. With this new timeline he seems too young.

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Just now, Platypus Rex said:

But he is "of the night".

But he envies artur and probably thinks he is better than him. It is in character for him to go get the sword. He might not be its final wielder during the series, but I can t see anyone else going to get the sword in the near future.

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3 minutes ago, divica said:

I think it is equally important to take into account when grrm said it because he was planning to have a 5 year gap that would qualify ned dayne to be the sword in the morning. With this new timeline he seems too young.

And who would bestow this honor on him?

The significance of Ned Dayne is that he is Lord Dayne.  He (presumably) gets to bestow the title.  He (presumably) gets to decide who is worthy.

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7 minutes ago, divica said:

I think it is equally important to take into account when grrm said it because he was planning to have a 5 year gap that would qualify ned dayne to be the sword in the morning. With this new timeline he seems too young.

No, he had already abandoned the gap then. 

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8 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

And who would bestow this honor on him?

The significance of Ned Dayne is that he is Lord Dayne.  He (presumably) gets to bestow the title.  He (presumably) gets to decide who is worthy.

He has uncles or aunts or cousins… Maybe they all get together for a familly dinner and then decide?

But the point is that the only dayne that is in dorne and might want the sword at the moment is darkstar.

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8 minutes ago, divica said:

He has uncles or aunts or cousins… Maybe they all get together for a familly dinner and then decide?

But the point is that the only dayne that is in dorne and might want the sword at the moment is darkstar.

Being in Dorne is not a requirement.  I think GRRM said that Dawn was in Starfall last time he was cornered with a question.  But that was a while ago, IIRC, and things can change.

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5 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Being in Dorne is not a requirement.  I think GRRM said that Dawn was in Starfall last time he was cornered with a question.  But that was a while ago, IIRC, and things can change.

I think if the sword had been moved from starfall someone from the dorne povs would have known about it so that the reader also knows.

It would be a bit random if Dawn sudenly appears somewhere instead of the dayne family castle.

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4 minutes ago, divica said:

"I think if the sword had been moved from starfall someone from the dorne povs would have known about it so that the reader also knows."

The "reader" does not even know that it is in Starfall.  He has to go to an SSM for that.  Why would he necessarily know if it were there no longer?  Stuff can happen offscreen.  

"It would be a bit random if Dawn suddenly appears somewhere instead of the dayne family castle."

That depends.  What if the castle gets sacked and we were told the sword could not be found?  It might seem less "random", then.

But we're both arguing from ignorance now.  I don't agree that you would know where the sword was, if GRRM did not want you to know where the sword was.

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17 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

I think GRRM said that Dawn was in Starfall last time he was cornered with a question.  But that was a while ago, IIRC, and things can change.

Yes, he did:

Quote

 

What happened to Ser Arthur Dayne's sword Dawn after Ned brought it back to Ashara?

Dawn remains at Starfall, until another Sword of the Morning shall arise.

 

It's certainly true GRRM could have changed his mind, but the phrasing here -- that Dawn is at Starfall because no new Sword of the Morning has emerged -- suggests to me it's still there.

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2 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

The "reader" does not even know that it is in Starfall.  He has to go to an SSM for that.  Why would he necessarily know if it were there no longer?  Stuff can happen offscreen.  

"It would be a bit random if Dawn suddenly appears somewhere instead of the dayne family castle."

That depends.  What if the castle gets sacked and we were told the sword could not be found?  It might seem less "random", then.

But we're both arguing from ignorance now.  I don't agree that you would know where the sword was, if GRRM did not want you to know where the sword was.

We might not know where it is now, but its last whereabouts were in starfall when ned delivered it. Even if it isn t in starfall we all expect to be somewhere protected by the daynes.

What I am saying is if it isn t in some dayne safe "place" then we should get some indication like what you sugested.

However, at the moment as nobody has sugested otherwise we must believe it is somewhere controled by the daynes and therefore in dorne.

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6 minutes ago, JNR said:

Yes, he did:

It's certainly true GRRM could have changed his mind, but the phrasing here -- that Dawn is at Starfall because no new Sword of the Morning has emerged -- suggests to me it's still there.

You are assuming no new Sword of the Morning has emerged.  I have my own ideas about that, and I suspect it will happen off-screen.

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

We might not know where it is now, but its last whereabouts were in starfall when ned delivered it. Even if it isn t in starfall we all expect to be somewhere protected by the daynes.

The Lord of Starfall was last seen wandering the Riverlands, and his location is now unknown.

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1 minute ago, Platypus Rex said:

The Lord of Starfall was last seen wandering the Riverlands, and his location is now unknown.

Wait. My memory is a bit foggy on which daynes are still alive.

Which lord of starfall are you talking about?

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1 minute ago, divica said:

Wait. My memory is a bit foggy on which daynes are still alive.

Which lord of starfall are you talking about?

Edric Dayne.

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Just now, Platypus Rex said:

Edric Dayne.

But in order for ned to get Dawn someone from the daynes in dorne would need to travel to him with the sword.

In adition, whas has ned done to desserve Dawn? People either don t know what he has been doing or think he is a criminal right? Because he has been seen leading some men of the BwB...

Or are you sugesting he is going to dorne for the sword? And I would ask again why? Because from what I remember ned was just a squire and should still be pretty young. What has he done to desserve the sword?

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7 minutes ago, divica said:

"But in order for ned to get Dawn someone from the daynes in dorne would need to travel to him with the sword."

So?  If something does down, someone might indeed flee Starfall with the sword, and go looking for Ned as well.

"In addition, whas has Ned done to deserve Dawn?"

His role will be to decide who deserves Dawn.

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Just now, Platypus Rex said:

So?  If something does down, someone might indeed flee Starfall with the sword, and go looking for Ned as well.

"In addition, whas has Ned done to deserve Dawn?"

His role will be to decide who deserves Dawn.

Ok. That I can agree with. 

For some reason the dorne daynes decide it is safer/needed to send the sword to edric because he is lord dayne now and given the "other" threat edric will end up giving the sword to someone who will need it or even using it himself.

As long as Dawn can kill others I can be onboard with this. 

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14 minutes ago, divica said:

But in order for ned to get Dawn someone from the daynes in dorne would need to travel to him with the sword.

In adition, whas has ned done to desserve Dawn? People either don t know what he has been doing or think he is a criminal right? Because he has been seen leading some men of the BwB...

Or are you sugesting he is going to dorne for the sword? And I would ask again why? Because from what I remember ned was just a squire and should still be pretty young. What has he done to desserve the sword?

Has he been seen leading BwB men, or is he just a squire, a boy? 

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