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Bittersweet Distractor

What happened to Morning? F&B spoilers

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I started F&B a while ago and only have recently managed to finish it as I've been so busy with other things, as of the end of the Regency of Aegon III, Morning is healthy, had made her lair in the Dragonpit and then Dragonstone and was flown by Rhaena so was clearly not the last stunted dragon with withered wings.

We know Sheepstealer appeared again with Nettles in the Vale, we know Silverwing lived in red lake, I'm interested in what others think happened to Morning between the end of the Regency and the time the last dragon died, particularly as others got Baela to dissuade her from taking her dragon both to the Vale and on a Royal progress(which never happened anyway) it's clear they realised how important her survival was.

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29 minutes ago, Bittersweet Distractor said:

I started F&B a while ago and only have recently managed to finish it as I've been so busy with other things, as of the end of the Regency of Aegon III, Morning is healthy, had made her lair in the Dragonpit and then Dragonstone and was flown by Rhaena so was clearly not the last stunted dragon with withered wings.

Aegon III was known as "The Dragonbane". I'd say he had Morning killed before she got too big, or maybe his half sister Rhaena made a pitch for the Iron Throne and Morning was shot down, Meraxes style on Aegon's orders. 

 

Silverwing and Sheepstealer are away from his reach, and the  dog sized last Dragon sounds like no threat to Aegon who was terrified of dragons. 

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8 minutes ago, Ser Uncle P said:

Aegon III was known as "The Dragonbane". I'd say he had Morning killed before she got too big, or maybe his half sister Rhaena made a pitch for the Iron Throne and Morning was shot down, Meraxes style on Aegon's orders. 

I haven't actually read the histories, but I was under the impression that the last dragon just died under Aegon III. I never thought that he would have it killed.

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34 minutes ago, Ser Uncle P said:

Aegon III was known as "The Dragonbane". I'd say he had Morning killed before she got too big, or maybe his half sister Rhaena made a pitch for the Iron Throne and Morning was shot down, Meraxes style on Aegon's orders. 

 

Silverwing and Sheepstealer are away from his reach, and the  dog sized last Dragon sounds like no threat to Aegon who was terrified of dragons. 

He was definately terrified of dragons but I don't think he'd have had Morning killed, he tolerated her presence in Kings Landing and only refused to take Queen Daenaera to see her in the Dragonpit, once she was big enough to fly Rhaena took her away to Dragonstone.

Also later in his reign he sent for mages from across the narrow sea at the urging of his brother to try and hatch dragons eggs, so while I'd say he had a personal distaste for dragons I'd also say he recognised their import to the future of his house.

My main theory is Rhaena does something impulsive and rides her into battle before she's big enough but I'd be surprised if it was against Aegon.

Edited by Bittersweet Distractor

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21 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I haven't actually read the histories, but I was under the impression that the last dragon just died under Aegon III. I never thought that he would have it killed.

Speculation on my behalf, the histories stop with Morning healthy and growing as Aegon III takes power. 

 

But, the nickname "Dragonbane" suggests he did something harmful to Dragons.. we'll see from FAB2.. 

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Nothing happened to Morning in FaB. We don't know what happened to her, Silverwing, or the Cannibal.

They will be back in FaB II and meet their ends there.

Chances are pretty high that they will go down in battle, considering Aegon III is going to be troubled by a number of fake Daerons (some of which might claim dragons) and, more importantly, very likely the son of Aemond and Alys Rivers who allegedly already has a dragon - or might claim either Silverwing or the Cannibal in the years to come.

Morning and Rhaena could very well go down in the last dragon battle Westeros will ever see. We already got the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye and the Battle Above the Gods Eye, so the last battle could be the Battle Besides the Gods Eye.

Dragons being poisoned and born crippled and stunted will likely be the young hatchlings born during the reign of Aegon III, including the last two she-dragons who seem to have hatched early in the 150s AC.

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11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Nothing happened to Morning in FaB. We don't know what happened to her, Silverwing, or the Cannibal.

They will be back in FaB II and meet their ends there.

Chances are pretty high that they will go down in battle, considering Aegon III is going to be troubled by a number of fake Daerons (some of which might claim dragons) and, more importantly, very likely the son of Aemond and Alys Rivers who allegedly already has a dragon - or might claim either Silverwing or the Cannibal in the years to come.

Morning and Rhaena could very well go down in the last dragon battle Westeros will ever see. We already got the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye and the Battle Above the Gods Eye, so the last battle could be the Battle Besides the Gods Eye.

Dragons being poisoned and born crippled and stunted will likely be the young hatchlings born during the reign of Aegon III, including the last two she-dragons who seem to have hatched early in the 150s AC.

That scenario would mean  Aegon III was passive in the demise of the dragons

 

As I keep saying, the nickname "Dragonbane"  suggests that he had an active role...we'll see when FAB part 2 comes out...

Edited by Ser Uncle P

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23 minutes ago, Ser Uncle P said:

That scenario would mean  Aegon III was passive in the demise of the dragons.

As I keep saying, the nickname "Dragonbane"  suggests that he had an active role...we'll see when FAB part 2 comes out...

The nickname 'Dragonbane' comes from the fact that the last dragon(s) died during his reign. Not from the fact that he, personally, killed any dragons. There are rumors that he poisoned dragons - but those are just rumors.

The Cannibal and Silverwing are not exactly in Aegon III's control, anyway, and Morning isn't, either.

Aegon III is afraid of dragons. He'll avoid them like hell and he may mess with the eggs to ensure that none of them ever hatch, but he is not likely to attack any of the grown-up, living dragons. He would be too afraid for that. The fact that it seems Harrenhal only goes to another house in 151 AC - when Prince Viserys has his brother grant the castle and lordship to Lucas Lothston - implies that Alys Rivers and her son may have kept the castle until 149-151 AC, allowing the boy to grow into a strong man until he was ready to claim the throne that should have been his (the fact that Larys Strong was only interred at Harrenhal years later, and that Dark Sister was also only found years after the Dance ended also indicate this).

The reason for this may be the fact that Alys and her son had a dragon, and we all know that Aegon III was afraid of dragons. He may have refused to allow an army or his sister Rhaena and her dragon to attack them until they really had no other choice.

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Is it true from wiki that Rhaena married Garmund Hightower with who she had 6 daughters? I am not sure if it is covered in F&B she has 20 years is a widow and her dragon can be ridden are final informations. 

If that is true I  doubt they would marry potentially only dragonrider to Hightower just after the end of dance, maybe she didn't had dragon at the moment of marriage.

Edited by Eltharion21

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10 hours ago, Eltharion21 said:

Is it true from wiki that Rhaena married Garmund Hightower with who she had 6 daughters? I am not sure if it is covered in F&B she has 20 years is a widow and her dragon can be ridden are final informations. 

If that is true I  doubt they would marry potentially only dragonrider to Hightower just after the end of dance, maybe she didn't had dragon at the moment of marriage.

I am pretty sure that this Rhaena married a Corbray from the Vale

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19 minutes ago, WyldFyre said:

I am pretty sure that this Rhaena married a Corbray from the Vale

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaena_Targaryen_(daughter_of_Daemon)

  Corwyn Corbray dies in F&B in 134AC when she is 18, information about her second marriage is stated in wiki,  that information seems to be from "The World of Ice & Fire, Appendix: Targaryen Lineage".

Edited by Eltharion21

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17 hours ago, Ser Uncle P said:

That scenario would mean  Aegon III was passive in the demise of the dragons

 

As I keep saying, the nickname "Dragonbane"  suggests that he had an active role...we'll see when FAB part 2 comes out...

Like Lord Varys said I’ve always thought he was called ‘Dragonbane’ because the dragons died out during his tenure in charge even though he wasn’t directly responsible for their demise- it would be like calling Yoda ‘Jedibane’ :P.

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1 hour ago, Bittersweet Distractor said:

Like Lord Varys said I’ve always thought he was called ‘Dragonbane’ because the dragons died out during his tenure in charge even though he wasn’t directly responsible for their demise- it would be like calling Yoda ‘Jedibane’ :P.

Well we'll know for sure when FAB2 comes out, but the word "bane" suggests he was personally involved in their extinction. Bit like the ring in LOTR being referred to as "Isildur's Bane" 

 

He seems very shrewd in the Regency chapters of FAB, but his aversion to dragons coupled  may have caused him to have Morning and the others taken out. I wouldn't discount the rumours at all...

 

 

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Could just be the people's way of marking his reign as when dragon extinction became assured.   Like when you're not a green thumb and all the plants in your care crap out.  Or, he spent them poorly with bad decisions.

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1 hour ago, Ser Uncle P said:

Well we'll know for sure when FAB2 comes out, but the word "bane" suggests he was personally involved in their extinction. Bit like the ring in LOTR being referred to as "Isildur's Bane" 

 

He seems very shrewd in the Regency chapters of FAB, but his aversion to dragons coupled  may have caused him to have Morning and the others taken out. I wouldn't discount the rumours at all...

 

 

I'd certainly not rule it out, even though at the moment I think it's unlikley, if this is the case though it will cement my opinion of him as the worst king the Seven Kingdoms has had, ok maybe not worse than Aegon IV.

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1 hour ago, Ser Uncle P said:

Well we'll know for sure when FAB2 comes out, but the word "bane" suggests he was personally involved in their extinction. Bit like the ring in LOTR being referred to as "Isildur's Bane" 

If he was personally involved, Gyldayn is neither going to know nor going to tell us. Because we already know that there are just rumors that Aegon III was involved in an alleged poisoning of the dragons.

That goes back to THK.

1 hour ago, Ser Uncle P said:

He seems very shrewd in the Regency chapters of FAB, but his aversion to dragons coupled  may have caused him to have Morning and the others taken out. I wouldn't discount the rumours at all...

Since there are other rumors that the Citadel was behind the poisoning of the dragons chances are pretty high that whatever rumors Gyldayn might cite are going to turn out to be just that - vile rumors spread to prevent the revelation of what was actually going on.

I expect Gyldayn to cite various explanations around the death of the various stunted dragons, one of which is going to be poison. Aegon III will then be one or the major suspect to have been behind such a poisoning, but there won't be any proof for that or the fact that the dragons have been poisoned.

Alternative explanations are likely going to be sickness, foul magic, a punishment of the gods for the Dance and/or Targaryen incest, accidents (like dragons eating bad food, drinking bad water, etc.), the bad influence/effect of the Dragonpit, etc.

George certainly might use this opportunity to give us subtle clues what was really going on, but he is not likely having Gyldayn spelling it out for us. If the Citadel was involved Gyldayn might know and have no interest to reveal the involvement of his institution.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

If he was personally involved, Gyldayn is neither going to know nor going to tell us. Because we already know that there are just rumors that Aegon III was involved in an alleged poisoning of the dragons.

That goes back to THK.

Since there are other rumors that the Citadel was behind the poisoning of the dragons chances are pretty high that whatever rumors Gyldayn might cite are going to turn out to be just that - vile rumors spread to prevent the revelation of what was actually going on.

I expect Gyldayn to cite various explanations around the death of the various stunted dragons, one of which is going to be poison. Aegon III will then be one or the major suspect to have been behind such a poisoning, but there won't be any proof for that or the fact that the dragons have been poisoned.

Alternative explanations are likely going to be sickness, foul magic, a punishment of the gods for the Dance and/or Targaryen incest, accidents (like dragons eating bad food, drinking bad water, etc.), the bad influence/effect of the Dragonpit, etc.

George certainly might use this opportunity to give us subtle clues what was really going on, but he is not likely having Gyldayn spelling it out for us. If the Citadel was involved Gyldayn might know and have no interest to reveal the involvement of his institution.

Could be a grain of truth in both rumours.  I wouldn't expect Gyldayn to admit complicity of the Citadel, but Winds might see follow ups to Marwyn's comments in Feast about the Citadels rationalist anti dragon agenda. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Do we know when new dragons suddenly stopped hatching?

We can guess at that, since we know that the last dragon were just a couple of years when she died, so there might have dragon-hatching going on as late as the late 140s or even the early 150s AC. Might even be that some eggs hatched after the death of the last dragon, only to produce dead dragons (although we know nothing about that).

But the eggs of Aegon IV and Aemon could both hatch, causing them to be the last Targaryens who actually bond with young dragons, and/or become the last dragonriders (assuming their hypothetical dragons live long enough to be mounted).

3 hours ago, Ser Uncle P said:

Could be a grain of truth in both rumours.  I wouldn't expect Gyldayn to admit complicity of the Citadel, but Winds might see follow ups to Marwyn's comments in Feast about the Citadels rationalist anti dragon agenda. 

I could see Aegon III actually be involved in or covering up the poisoning of the dragons, but I doubt he was. Yes, the boy and youth is very much afraid of dragon - to the degree that he clearly hated them. But chances are that he was able to master that fear/hatred as the years went by - or at least that the passage of time took away the edge of his emotions.

After all, it seems the travesty that came from Laena's egg did not prevent Aegon III from giving an egg to his daughter Elaena later in life. And the fact that she got an egg makes it pretty likely his other children got eggs, too.

If Aegon III really wanted to see the dragons gone he would have likely started with the destruction of the dragon eggs, thus preventing that new dragons could hatch, rather than actually giving such eggs to at least one of his children (and she was born three years before the last dragon died, meaning there was no reason to assume her egg would not hatch). He would not have merely conspired to kill the dragons. As king he could have openly and boldly decreed that those hideous and dangerous creatures had to be killed. He had reason to hide behind poison. He could have commanded his leal knights to kill Silverwing, the Cannibal, Morning, and all the dragons that may have hatched in later years.

But he didn't do such a thing.

As for the name 'Dragonbane':

That's likely a name he only got very late in life or even only after his death. After all, the last dragon died four years before Aegon III's own death, and by the time the king died it may not yet have been clear that the last dragon was the last dragon. They may have only realized some time later that none of the remaining dragon eggs would hatch and thus the dragons were now, apparently, gone for good.

Aegon the Dragonbane could have been that took hold when people were starting to differentiate between old King Aegon the Broken King and the new King Aegon that would eventually be known as the Unworthy.

A pretty obvious reason why that name may have stuck and why people may have speculated the king had something to do with the deaths of the dragons is that Aegon III apparently only showed open anger and hostility (at least while a boy) when he was confronted by a dragon. They caused him to really show his Targaryen temper, and such episodes may have been more memorable in a man as a aloof and withdrawn as he was than in other Targaryen kings.

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