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Legitimate_Bastard

Poll: Secret Stark Knights

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Due to the lively discussion in a recent thread, I wish to know who among you think that Rickard and Brandon Stark were actually secret Knights, and had converted to the Faith of the Seven.

So the poll is simple.

Yes or No. Were Rickard Stark and Brandon Stark actually knights?

Please read this thread for more on the topic.

 

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I think Rickard may have been. Brandon too. We know of a number of northmen who are knights or had dreams of knighthood who are not from House Manderly. 

Between Rickard's golden spurs (and his mother's house seems to produce knights) and Brandon's fostering at Barrowton and the whole idea of barrow knights, I don't think it's impossible. 

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Even Bran wanted to be a knight and member of the Kingsguard, so that part isn't unbelievable, I just don't think the ruling family of the North would ever forego the old gods for the 7.

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No.

1 minute ago, Igziabeher said:

Even Bran wanted to be a knight and member of the Kingsguard, so that part isn't unbelievable, I just don't think the ruling family of the North would ever forego the old gods for the 7.

For Bran it makes more sense, given that his mother is a Tully, and that Ned built a sept and brought a septon and septa to WF for her.

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So, why the secrecy surrounding it? It's like trying to find an alternate reason for Ned never telling Cat about Jon IMO.

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4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

So, why the secrecy surrounding it? It's like trying to find an alternate reason for Ned never telling Cat about Jon IMO.

I agree. One could maybe argue that the northerners are a sort of OG Fot7 hybrid, with aspects of both cultures present. But to say they were straight up Seven fearing Faithers is whack, IMO.

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8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

So, why the secrecy surrounding it? It's like trying to find an alternate reason for Ned never telling Cat about Jon IMO.

Is it secrecy or is it just not that important? It would be a small detail that would change nothing to the larger picture. 

Quote

 

I agree. One could maybe argue that the northerners are a sort of OG Fot7 hybrid, with aspects of both cultures present. But to say they were straight up Seven fearing Faithers is whack, IMO.

It's not saying that, though. I don't know what kind of vows northmen take to become knights and I'm assuming that it's adapted to them. Rodrik Cassel was a knight, Alyn wanted to be a knight. 

 

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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59 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Is it secrecy or is it just not that important? It would be a small detail that would change nothing to the larger picture. 

I get what you're saying, and I agree. But the question then becomes, "why?". What's the point of making the ruling northern house followers of the 7 instead of the OG, leave no actual clues pointing to it, and it won't even matter at all in the end? 

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1 hour ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

I agree. One could maybe argue that the northerners are a sort of OG Fot7 hybrid, with aspects of both cultures present. But to say they were straight up Seven fearing Faithers is whack, IMO.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a hybrid between OG and the 7. I think the Starks - think real, actual direwolves - are really an OG house. And since Ned and Cat got married, very accommodating of Cat's faith. 

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1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a hybrid between OG and the 7. I think the Starks - think real, actual direwolves - are really an OG house. And since Ned and Cat got married, very accommodating of Cat's faith. 

Hybrid was a poor choice of words. I mean it in as much as, they act knightly without being knights. Chivalry seems to mean something to the Starks, even if they don't label it as such and call themselves Ser.

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No. They didn't convert to the 7. Brandon may have a squire, an aide, an apprentice. But he was not anointed or dedicated to the 7. And Ethan would not become a knight of the 7 anyway.

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19 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I get what you're saying, and I agree. But the question then becomes, "why?". What's the point of making the ruling northern house followers of the 7 instead of the OG, leave no actual clues pointing to it, and it won't even matter at all in the end? 

I think this is where we don't agree. Taking knightly vows doesn't have to equate the person becoming a follower of the seven. A lot of things are sworn by the old gods and the new.

Perhaps it's a poor example, because Jorah seems pretty godless or we never hear him refer to the gods, but he is a northman, and should be a follower of the old gods and he was knighted. 

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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1 hour ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Hybrid was a poor choice of words. I mean it in as much as, they act knightly without being knights. Chivalry seems to mean something to the Starks, even if they don't label it as such and call themselves Ser.

Definitely agree. And we have Luwin telling Bran something along those lines. I think when Robb calls the banners and they're talking about how many men Robb has. 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think this is where we don't agree. Taking knightly vows doesn't have to equate the person becoming a follower of the seven. A lot of things are sworn by the old gods and the new.

I didn't make myself clear, sorry. I don't think every knight necessarily follows the 7. But still, why make Rickard and Brandon knights, leavibg no proper clues to speak of, when it has no actual impact or purpose? W/ all the actual [pertinent] mysteries we already have, why waste time on something like this?

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Perhaps it's a poor example, because Jorah seems pretty godless or we never hear him refer to the gods, but he is a northman, and should be a follower of the old gods and he was knighted. 

Agree. I'm sure there are quite a few knights in the North. 

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It's not inconceivable, as they both had closer ties or potential ties with the uber-Andalish Vale, and Rickard's spurs and Brandon's participation in the tourney might be hints that they were knights, or were at least flirting with knightly culture. I doubt either converted to the Faith, at least not in any serious way.

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