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Relic

NBA 2019 - Now the Joy in My World is in Zion

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Will the Pelicans regret not trading AD before the deadline? Is it fair for the NBA to force them to play a guy they desperately need to stay healthy till he's traded this off-season? I'm conflicted. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Relic said:

Will the Pelicans regret not trading AD before the deadline? Is it fair for the NBA to force them to play a guy they desperately need to stay healthy till he's traded this off-season? I'm conflicted. 

I doubt it, because Boston will give them the best offer they're likely to get this offseason, or another team will pony up big time to match.  If New York wins the lottery, that pick will absolutely be on the table.

Edited by briantw

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2 hours ago, briantw said:

I doubt it, because Boston will give them the best offer they're likely to get this offseason, or another team will pony up big time to match.  If New York wins the lottery, that pick will absolutely be on the table.

And what happens if he gets injured? Or announces that he won't resign with the Celtics and/or anyone but the Lakers if traded?

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1 minute ago, Relic said:

And what happens if he gets injured? Or announces that he won't resign with the Celtics and/or anyone but the Lakers if traded?

Well, the former is obviously a risk.  As for the latter, we've seen multiple times now that teams will take a chance on changing a guy's mind.  Not only that, but we've seen it pay off with Paul George.

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3 hours ago, Relic said:

Will the Pelicans regret not trading AD before the deadline? Is it fair for the NBA to force them to play a guy they desperately need to stay healthy till he's traded this off-season? I'm conflicted. 

 

 

I think he should have to play if we were around the midpoint of the season, but NO has less than 25 games left and everyone knows he won't be back, so they should be allowed to rest him, but they should also compensate season ticket holders.

As far as regretting not trading him goes, I lean towards no. LA's offer was high volume, but low quality. Ball and Ingram are just going to be average NBA players. Kuzma is the best piece in the deal, and I think his ceiling is making one or two All-Star teams if other players have a down year. Boston has more to offer as noted above, including the shot at a franchise player (Tatum), and the Knicks might have the top pick. Would you trade the rights to Zion if AD agrees to sign long term with the Knicks? 

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I just don't see how it ends up being the Celtics, on account of the fact that there has been *such* strong signalling from Davis' camp that it has to be LA. With all that's been said by Davis' dad and the whole feel you get, I just don't see how you can go all in with a mega offer if you're Boston. I don't believe it. So I think it'll end up with Lakers. Unless there is something to the Knicks having a chance somehow, with a high pick and the room to sign two max level free agents this summer. But I would imagine The Lakers seem like the preferred option for Davis, with LeBron already there.

Generally I find it a shame he wasn't traded already because taht would have made the Lakers an interesting team for the remainder of this season, a dark horse contender, in the way that they are not now with this young core.

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39 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Generally I find it a shame he wasn't traded already because taht would have made the Lakers an interesting team for the remainder of this season, a dark horse contender, in the way that they are not now with this young core.

True, but that's not in the Pelican's interest. At worst they'll get roughly the same offer from the Lakers in the summer, and then they'd actually be bidding against other teams so the offer could go up. The only way it's a bad decision is if AD gets hurt.

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10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

True, but that's not in the Pelican's interest. At worst they'll get roughly the same offer from the Lakers in the summer, and then they'd actually be bidding against other teams so the offer could go up. The only way it's a bad decision is if AD gets hurt.

Lakers pick will also be a lot better this summer without Davis on the team the rest of the season.  There's a good chance they miss the playoffs.  That absolutely would not have been the case with AD on the team.  At best, they're looking at the seven or eight seed as currently constructed.

Edited by briantw

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

As far as regretting not trading him goes, I lean towards no. LA's offer was high volume, but low quality. Ball and Ingram are just going to be average NBA players. Kuzma is the best piece in the deal, and I think his ceiling is making one or two All-Star teams if other players have a down year. 

Eh, D'Angelo Russell made All-Star after being traded from the Lakers. Not sure what his trajectory was before he was traded, but I think it shows that teams can turn players around. Its not like they haven't shown flashes of potential at all.

I do agree with you though, none of the players are an appealing asset now. Teams might gamble on one of them but it is a bit much to expect NO to gamble on all three of them. 

1 hour ago, briantw said:

Lakers pick will also be a lot better this summer without Davis on the team the rest of the season.  There's a good chance they miss the playoffs.  That absolutely would not have been the case with AD on the team.  At best, they're looking at the seven or eight seed as currently constructed.

Why would the pick be a lot better? They will participate in the lottery if they miss the playoffs, but it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to win the lottery, and will likely get a pick in the middle as opposed to getting a pick in the late middle if they made playoffs. They are likely out of the top 10 and bottom 10 regardless.

 

Also, I mentioned it before, but NO seems to be injury prone in general. Not sure if it is just bad luck or if there are other factors leading to it.

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55 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

Also, I mentioned it before, but NO seems to be injury prone in general. Not sure if it is just bad luck or if there are other factors leading to it.

It's a thing. Apparently the Bensons, who also own the Saints, have shortchanged the Pelicans in favor of the football operation. They even kept a team doctor who'd been working with both teams, after the Saints fired him for screwing up the diagnosis on a player.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/how-pelicans-failed-anthony-davis

Quote

Last season, the Pelicans suffered the most player games lost due to injury, per an InStreetClothes.com analysis, costing the team nearly $30 million in lost salary. The season before that, they ranked third-last in games lost due to injury. The season before that, they ranked dead-last again. Over the last five seasons, the Pelicans have lost the second-most games due to injury or illness. Only the Sixers have fared worse over the last five seasons, which has been well-chronicled.

This pattern isn’t a total anomaly if you ask rival team executives, who have long chided the Pelicans’ medical team for being run by “football guys” instead of those who have experience in the NBA. Fair or not, the Pelicans are fighting against a league-wide perception.

“The organization only cares about the Saints,” one league exec told NBC Sports.

Run by the Benson family, the Pelicans are one of three NBA teams whose primary ownership group also owns an NFL franchise (the Allen family owns the Blazers/Seahawks and the Kroenke family owns the Nuggets/Rams). But the Pelicans are the only NBA team that shares both its staffing and practice facility grounds with the football team, which many around the league see as a “corporate synergy” cost-saving measure. In 2012, the late Tom Benson appointed Saints general manager Mickey Loomis to be president of basketball operations for the Pelicans, overseeing Demps in the org chart. While the Lakers have Magic Johnson and the Celtics have Danny Ainge, the Pelicans have a football executive.

The medical staff is also filled with football résumés. The Pelicans’ head trainer, Jon Ishop, was hired in 2010 after eight seasons with the Houston Texans. When Ishop left to go to the Pistons in 2016, Demps said “an organizational decision” was made to replace Ishop with Duane Brooks, who had been an assistant trainer with the Saints before being brought over to the NBA side (This summer, the Pelicans decided to part ways with Brooks after his contract expired, sources tell NBC Sports.).

In August 2017, the Saints made national headlines after firing two orthopedists following a misdiagnosis of cornerback Delvin Breaux’s broken leg as a bone bruise. One of those fired physicians, Dr. Misty Suri, was serving dual roles with the Saints and the Pelicans. 

At the time, Saints coach Sean Payton explained the dismissal by saying, “I think it’s not one event, it probably builds up over a period of time. You’re not gonna bat a thousand here, but you’re just hoping that more often than not, you’re getting the right information.”
 
Despite being let go by the Saints, Dr. Suri maintained his position as the Director of Medical Services and Head Team Physician for the Pelicans. He has been there ever since, overseeing this rough spate of injuries.

 

Edited by DanteGabriel

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7 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

It's a thing. Apparently the Bensons, who also own the Saints, have shortchanged the Pelicans in favor of the football operation.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/how-pelicans-failed-anthony-davis

 

Thanks.

That's pretty horrid. I guess you can kind of justify the concept of corporate synergy, although it has become apparent now that specialist knowledge is required, but why would you let a doctor who has been dismissed from one role stay in the other? Do they think he has basketball expertise or what? :bang:

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1 hour ago, Proudfeet said:

Why would the pick be a lot better? They will participate in the lottery if they miss the playoffs, but it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to win the lottery, and will likely get a pick in the middle as opposed to getting a pick in the late middle if they made playoffs. They are likely out of the top 10 and bottom 10 regardless.

Because if you add Anthony Davis to the Lakers that team wins a lot more games to close out the season than they probably will without him, and thus their pick, for the purposes of trade, will be better.  Yeah, they probably won't win the lottery, but they'd almost certainly have no chance of being in the lottery at all if Davis was there.  Maybe the pick is only four or five spots better than it might have been with Davis on the Lakers, but that's not insignificant. 

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5 minutes ago, briantw said:

Because if you add Anthony Davis to the Lakers that team wins a lot more games to close out the season than they probably will without him, and thus their pick, for the purposes of trade, will be better.  Yeah, they probably won't win the lottery, but they'd almost certainly have no chance of being in the lottery at all if Davis was there.  Maybe the pick is only four or five spots better than it might have been with Davis on the Lakers, but that's not insignificant. 

Yeah, but "not insignificant" is not "a lot better". I know the Cavs got a top pick that way, but the odds are really low.

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Pels may be screwed.  Davis went out with what looks like a shoulder injury.  Not seeing an update on twitter yet.

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1 minute ago, SkynJay said:

Pels may be screwed.  Davis went out with what looks like a shoulder injury.  Not seeing an update on twitter yet.

Unless it's so serious that it would carry over well into next year, I wouldn't be too worried if I were them.  Lot of time between now and the tipoff of the 19/20 season.

Edited by briantw

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Blazers added Kantor which is intriguing.  So that plus Rodney Hood and beat the W's last night which sure feels good.  

Will Erdogan send assassins to Portland?  

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9 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Would you trade the rights to Zion if AD agrees to sign long term with the Knicks? 

I don't even free agents the Knicks could potentially land if they did that, but if its just AD and like...Kyrie, then i'd pass and vote to rebuild with young talent. 

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12 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

True, but that's not in the Pelican's interest. At worst they'll get roughly the same offer from the Lakers in the summer, and then they'd actually be bidding against other teams so the offer could go up. The only way it's a bad decision is if AD gets hurt.

What I was saying is that I seriously question whether that Boston offer will actually be on the table give all the signalling and clear intentions by Davis' camp that he simply will not want to stay there. From what we know now, he will not extend and would thus be a rental. In my estimation, this puts Boston out of the camp of suitors for Davis given what we currently know. He seems to specifically not want to go there, which is odd to me because that could be a phenomenal team with him there and a contender for years to come. 

So given that, it comes down to the Lakers again, in the summer. The Knicks can't trade for him, because they have nothing left to trade, they already tried to trade Porzingis and NO didn't want that. So it seems everything signals that he still goes to LA in the summer. Unless I'm missing out on some serious suitors.

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4 hours ago, Calibandar said:

What I was saying is that I seriously question whether that Boston offer will actually be on the table give all the signalling and clear intentions by Davis' camp that he simply will not want to stay there. From what we know now, he will not extend and would thus be a rental. In my estimation, this puts Boston out of the camp of suitors for Davis given what we currently know. He seems to specifically not want to go there, which is odd to me because that could be a phenomenal team with him there and a contender for years to come. 

So given that, it comes down to the Lakers again, in the summer. The Knicks can't trade for him, because they have nothing left to trade, they already tried to trade Porzingis and NO didn't want that. So it seems everything signals that he still goes to LA in the summer. Unless I'm missing out on some serious suitors.

Yeah to me if AD is signaling he only wants to play for the Lakers (or these 3 teams that are not Boston) then Boston can't offer Tatum. You can't give up 5 years of Tatum on a rookie deal for what's likely 1 year of AD. If AD doesn't re-sign that's a travesty for Boston. And you can't bet a blue chipper like Tatum on "maybe we'll convince him".  

The main difference between this and the Oladipo for George trade because OKC had nothing to lose in that deal. Oladipo flat didn't fit next to Westbrook. He didn't have a future in OKC. Might as well use him to get a high level all-star on the final year of his contract and try to convince him to stay. 

So if the possibility of Tatum is not included in future offers suddenly the Lakers deal is looking pretty good. But there's no guarantee the Lakers will offer as much as they did as the trade deadline because now it's now getting only 1 year of AD vs. 1.5 years. 1 accelerated Lebron + AD playoff run vs. 2. I think their offer only goes down from here. 

Pels had a choice at the deadline between the Lakers offer and Door #2 and they opted for the latter. Not an indefensible choice but risky especially with AD murdering their leverage. I think now their best hope to beat that Lakers offer is a third team coming in, like Milwaukee or someone who is just flat like "we're going for it." 

ETA: And now the Pels GM Demps has been fired. Yikes. Looks like the Pels are in pure "get what you can for him" mode. 

Edited by Jaime L

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