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NBA 2019 - Now the Joy in My World is in Zion


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On 4/17/2019 at 7:30 PM, Maithanet said:

It's not the worst idea.  If the entire league is going towards positional versatility in order to facilitate defensive switches and offensive spacing, then going against the grain means that you can find guys on the cheap who's skill set is less valued.  And if the Magic dared to play lineups with three PF/C types for extended minutes, it's quite possible they could wear down and bully more talented squads in a 7 game series.  It's similar to what Memphis did during the Gasol/Randolph years. 

The downside of this strategy is whether they can compete defensively against smaller quicker teams or if they just give up a bunch of open 3s. 

The real problem is offensively. In the modern NBA you need really good PGs or wings to not be terrible offensive (unless you have Jokic, who could well be the best passing center of all time). The Magic's lack of someone who can consistently get to the rim and finish or dish it out to the shooters against good defenses is the main reason they are not a good offensive team. Also Gordon, Isaac and Bamba are all quite bad at posting up and can't really take advantage of smaller players guarding them on switches. 

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5 minutes ago, David Selig said:

The real problem is offensively. In the modern NBA you need really good PGs or wings to not be terrible offensive (unless you have Jokic, who could well be the best passing center of all time). The Magic's lack of someone who can consistently get to the rim and finish or dish it out to the shooters against good defenses is the main reason they are not a good offensive team. Also Gordon, Isaac and Bamba are all quite bad at posting up and can't really take advantage of smaller players guarding them on switches. 

If the Magic's big men aren't capable of exploiting size mismatches, then they aren't all that good.  And the strategy I outlined would clearly fail. 

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

If the Magic's big men aren't capable of exploiting size mismatches, then they aren't all that good.  And the strategy I outlined would clearly fail. 

To David's point regarding Jokic, it helps tremendously if at least one of those big men is also an elite passer. This was another secret to the Grizzlies' success during their playoff runs - Gasol was like a 2nd point guard out there.

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Any thought on next year’s NBA MVP NHN?

Obvious early candidates are LeBron and turnaround, Curry and ‘KD gone, resumes carrying franchise, stats ’ if KD leaves and maybe KD himself if he stays and we go back to ‘best player on best team’. 

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32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Must be a Canadian thing. I’m guessing the syrup made his fingers stick on the wrong keys.

It's good to extend the benefit of doubt to regulars when they go off the rails. Like when you wax optimistic about Andrew Wiggins, I think there must have been too much lye in your lutefisk.

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18 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

It's good to extend the benefit of doubt to regulars when they go off the rails. Like when you wax optimistic about Andrew Wiggins, I think there must have been too much lye in your lutefisk.

I’m off that Wiggins narcotic, and if you reference him to me again, I’ll go full J.R. and throw a bowl of clam chowder at you!

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2 hours ago, James Arryn said:

National Basketball Association Most Valuable Player Not Harden Narrative. I think I predicted the wrong one for this year around this time last year. 

I assume you didn't mention Giannias as a potential candidate because he will win this year and is unlikely to win two years in a row. Otherwise, how dare you snub the Greek Freak! 

 

Anyway, re: the playoffs. All I know is it's really insane to go from getting booted in the first round 8 consecutive playoff appearances to likely to sweep the first round and make the finals. Go Bucks :wub:

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39 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

I assume you didn't mention Giannias as a potential candidate because he will win this year and is unlikely to win two years in a row. Otherwise, how dare you snub the Greek Freak! 

 

Anyway, re: the playoffs. All I know is it's really insane to go from getting booted in the first round 8 consecutive playoff appearances to likely to sweep the first round and make the finals. Go Bucks :wub:

Yeah, he could win with a different narrative. Maybe he’ll be the ‘statistical accomplishment’ narrative, ie Westbrook/Not Harden 2 years ago as opposed to the Not That this year. Just get it close to Harden and you’ll get the narrative. 

Don’t get me wrong, it IS close and he’s deserving. What i’m talking about is that we all know it’s a lock because it’s close, which was what was predicted (though I did not predict Giannis). But in a situation where most advanced stats favour Harden or are very close AND the player and coach polls name Harden MVP and in spite of clearly being The Story of individual players this year, achieving things no one not named Wilt and in some cases Jordan has ever achieved, we all know as a certainty Giannis will win. Because people don’t like James Harden. 

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25 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Yeah, he could win with a different narrative. Maybe he’ll be the ‘statistical accomplishment’ narrative, ie Westbrook/Not Harden 2 years ago as opposed to the Not That this year. Just get it close to Harden and you’ll get the narrative. 

Don’t get me wrong, it IS close and he’s deserving. What i’m talking about is that we all know it’s a lock because it’s close, which was what was predicted (though I did not predict Giannis). But in a situation where most advanced stats favour Harden or are very close AND the player and coach polls name Harden MVP and in spite of clearly being The Story of individual players this year, achieving things no one not named Wilt and in some cases Jordan has ever achieved, we all know as a certainty Giannis will win. Because people don’t like James Harden. 

What advanced stats favor Harden? I'm not doubting you so much as just curious, because I don't really know anything about advanced stats but I also have heard many people online posit contradictory claims using advanced stats in the context of this particular conversation, lol.

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17 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

What advanced stats favor Harden? I'm not doubting you so much as just curious, because I don't really know anything about advanced stats but I also have heard many people online posit contradictory claims using advanced stats in the context of this particular conversation, lol.

Win shares, VAR, Box+/-, pretty much every one except PER where Giannis is 0.03 ahead. 

Again, though, I think Giannis had a hell of a year and it’s not a complete crime that he’ll win. I agree with the NBA players poll and when people look back on this season Harden will imo be THE story, with the numbers, the streaks, carrying that team when everyone else was hurt etc., but Giannis IS close.

What’s a crime is that we KNOW despite all of that that Harden will lose because he’s aesthetically unpopular, and worse, that we could (and did) say before the season that the only way Harden wins is if no one else is even close. 

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I would value having the Greek one on my roster over "Needs the ball every second" Harden any day.  He seems more valuable to me so hes my MVP.

I cant imagine a trio of Giannis, Westbrook and Durant not getting a ring. Yet Harden couldnt win one with those two. Harden has big stats, as do most ball hogs, doesnt mean they are always Valuable. Harden will never win a Championship. To me the thing is with ball dominant types is you have to factor in the lost opportunity of productivity and efficiency from the rest of the guys on the court who didnt get any touches because Harden needs the ball 40% of the game. Id take the Greek, Alan Iverson proved years ago that hero ball falls short when its playoff time.

eta: Harden missed over 1000 FG's this season, thats alarming.

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54 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I would value having the Greek one on my roster over "Needs the ball every second" Harden any day.  He seems more valuable to me so hes my MVP.

I cant imagine a trio of Giannis, Westbrook and Durant not getting a ring. Yet Harden couldnt win one with those two. Harden has big stats, as do most ball hogs, doesnt mean they are always Valuable. Harden will never win a Championship. To me the thing is with ball dominant types is you have to factor in the lost opportunity of productivity and efficiency from the rest of the guys on the court who didnt get any touches because Harden needs the ball 40% of the game. Id take the Greek, Alan Iverson proved years ago that hero ball falls short when its playoff time.

eta: Harden missed over 1000 FG's this season, thats alarming.

 See what I mean? People don’t like him. 

FWIW, Michael Jordan missed over 1000 FGA’s on 5 seasons, over 950 4 more seasons, was prevented by injury from a few more and on none of them was as efficient as Harden was this year (or any other...his career TS% was .569, which Harden was only below in his rookie year. Jordan’s highest  TS%...by a significant margin...was .614.  That’s the only year he beat Harden’s career TS% of .609.

Edit: and Harden was within a Chris Paul injury from winning one last year. And even with that injury the Warriors required an 8ppg advantage from the refs (not according to me, according to the league’s own released statement on officiating review) to get it done.

Now I suppose the goalposts will move to the other end. 

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6 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Win shares, VAR, Box+/-, pretty much every one except PER where Giannis is 0.03 ahead. 

Again, though, I think Giannis had a hell of a year and it’s not a complete crime that he’ll win. I agree with the NBA players poll and when people look back on this season Harden will imo be THE story, with the numbers, the streaks, carrying that team when everyone else was hurt etc., but Giannis IS close.

What’s a crime is that we KNOW despite all of that that Harden will lose because he’s aesthetically unpopular, and worse, that we could (and did) say before the season that the only way Harden wins is if no one else is even close. 

I assume all of the advanced stats you're talking about are offensive, yeah? You can't ignore half of their games. I understand that offense is (and rightfully should be) weighed heavier in the modern area of the NBA, but also, the disparity between the two is huge.

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 Im a Pistons fan, we hate Jordan even more than Harden, but you are correct that Harden has anti-fans so to speak lol. Giannis is still more efficient than Harden with either FG % or EFG % isnt he?

Anyways have no need with goalpost moving, im okay with anyone that thinks Harden is their MVP, I just feel Giannis is better.

 

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