NBA 2019 - Now the Joy in My World is in Zion

[DireWolfSpirit]

Plus I mean come on the guy is linked to one of the Kardashians ffs, that should disqualify anyone from accolades shouldnt it?

[James Arryn]

22 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

I assume all of the advanced stats you're talking about are offensive, yeah? You can't ignore half of their games. I understand that offense is (and rightfully should be) weighed heavier in the modern area of the NBA, but also, the disparity between the two is huge.

No, the stats I’m quoting are attempts to consolidate value. For example Win Shares can be broken down into Offensive and Defensive Win Shares. So Giannis’ overall Win Shares of 14.4 is comprised of 8.9 Offensive Win Shares and 5.5 Defensive Win Shares, whereas Harden’s 15.2 Win Shares are broken down 11.4 and 3.8, respectively. Similarly with the other stats, they are all attempts to measure overall impact. 

Interestingly, players are actually pushing for more (not less) emphasis on the offensive with high usage because of how hard it makes defenders work, thereby lessening their energy on O, ie the old ‘play D by making them play at the other end’, or since we’re on MJ, what happened before Pippen. 

[James Arryn]

2 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Plus I mean come on the guy is linked to one of the Kardashians ffs, that should disqualify anyone from accolades shouldnt it?

See, this is a legit argument. 

[Proudfeet]

1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I would value having the Greek one on my roster over "Needs the ball every second" Harden any day.  He seems more valuable to me so hes my MVP.

I cant imagine a trio of Giannis, Westbrook and Durant not getting a ring. Yet Harden couldnt win one with those two. Harden has big stats, as do most ball hogs, doesnt mean they are always Valuable. Harden will never win a Championship. To me the thing is with ball dominant types is you have to factor in the lost opportunity of productivity and efficiency from the rest of the guys on the court who didnt get any touches because Harden needs the ball 40% of the game. Id take the Greek, Alan Iverson proved years ago that hero ball falls short when its playoff time.

eta: Harden missed over 1000 FG's this season, thats alarming.

What? First, you're assuming at least a 33% ring rate considering Harden only spent three seasons with the Thunder. And if we consider development time for all four players, it really is only one season, so a 100% rate. They weren't MVPs from their rookie seasons in case you are forgetting.

Secondly, being second isn't all that bad. Considering that their opponent was a super team with extra motivation from their loss the previous year and that they arguably choked more than they were beaten. But no, second place is worthless and is equivalent to a first round exit in which case it is better to tank and get a number one pick. 

Third, you're comparing Harden then and saying Harden now. In that case, I much prefer the more recent and relevant one Chris Paul injury away from winning version. 

Fourth, Westbrook and Durant aren't much less ball hogs anyway. Its a consequence of the roster, or did you forget how Westbrook got his MVP?

Anyway, my opinion on this is that it is whether people prefer the effective (Giannis) or productive (Harden). I prefer Harden, but well, its the MVP. You could define valuable as most shirt sales or something.

[IamMe90]

6 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

Anyway, my opinion on this is that it is whether people prefer the effective (Giannis) or productive (Harden). I prefer Harden, but well, its the MVP. You could define valuable as most shirt sales or something.

You could also define it as something more relevant like "leading a team to win more games than any other team in the league" but eh  

[Proudfeet]

2 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

You could also define it as something more relevant like "leading a team to win more games than any other team in the league" but eh  

Yes you can, best player on best team usually has a decent success rate if I recall correctly. I just don't really care. It's hard to separate a player from his team and comparing across positions and game plans makes it even worse. I've said it multiple times but to me its a pageant*. It is just about who looks best and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

*I've never actually seen a pageant.

[IamMe90]

23 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

Yes you can, best player on best team usually has a decent success rate if I recall correctly. I just don't really care. It's hard to separate a player from his team and comparing across positions and game plans makes it even worse. I've said it multiple times but to me its a pageant*. It is just about who looks best and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

*I've never actually seen a pageant.

I definitely don't disagree at all! It's 90% determined by the subjective narrative each voter subscribes to, in the end. That said, I'm just ecstatic the superstar from my team is in the running. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

9 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

What? First, you're assuming at least a 33% ring rate considering Harden only spent three seasons with the Thunder. And if we consider development time for all four players, it really is only one season, so a 100% rate. They weren't MVPs from their rookie seasons in case you are forgetting.

Secondly, being second isn't all that bad. Considering that their opponent was a super team with extra motivation from their loss the previous year and that they arguably choked more than they were beaten. But no, second place is worthless and is equivalent to a first round exit in which case it is better to tank and get a number one pick. 

Third, you're comparing Harden then and saying Harden now. In that case, I much prefer the more recent and relevant one Chris Paul injury away from winning version. 

Fourth, Westbrook and Durant aren't much less ball hogs anyway. Its a consequence of the roster, or did you forget how Westbrook got his MVP?

Anyway, my opinion on this is that it is whether people prefer the effective (Giannis) or productive (Harden). I prefer Harden, but well, its the MVP. You could define valuable as most shirt sales or something.

I agree Westbrook isnt much less of a ballhog than Harden. But I wouldnt Lump Durant in with them. Behind Giannis, I consider Durant the second most valuable player in the league.

[Ramsay B.]

This is a really fun and testy 76ers-Nets game. Butler just got ejected after pushing wild man Dudley(who also got ejected), who initially shoved Embiid for a hard foul. It’s been building all game and finally boiled over. Good trade-off for Nets but Embiid looks rejuvenated after the dust finally settled.

Ice cold Russell with some answers though. 

[Ramsay B.]

Oh he’s definitely a goon.

[KingintheNorth4]

Jared Dudley wants all the smoke. 

[James Arryn]

 

 

Awkward moment during end of Bucks game. After a nice play by Giannis, the pbp guy asked their colour guy (Billups) ‘if you had to...you don’t have to, but let’s say you have to...vote for MVP, Giannis or Harden?’

And sitting a few feet away from the Bucks, Billups says ‘I’d have to say Harden. Giannis had a great year, but what James did this year, I don’t think we’ve ever seen that before. I know I never have. This was one of those forever remember seasons.’

ESPN made the point that this might be the greatest season in the last 30 years. People earlier were citing his usage as a criticism, forgetting 4 important facts. 

1) A huge stretch of the season he was missing basically the other remaining starters and absolutely had to carry them.

2) Usage is also a burden. Any player or coach talk about what a major burden it is to have to carry everything.

3) This is the big one: efficiency. That’s the normal negative corollary with high usage, and for good reason. Here is the TS% of the other top 10 usage seasons of all time:

Westbrook .554

Kobe .559

Westbrook .534

Jordan .562

Iverson .489

Cousins .538

Wade .574

O’Neal .520

Wade .562

Harden’s TS% is .616. He. .130 ahead of Iverson who for some reason was earlier cited as a comparison. But he’s also ahead of bigs like O’Neal. He’s on another level, and there are some pretty heady names there. The difference between Harden and the 2nd most efficient guy in the top 10 (Wade) is greater than the difference between Wade and everyone else but Iverson. We’ve never seen this kind of load and effectiveness combined before. 

Edit: oh, 4) winning. Best record in the NBA in the 2nd half, despite all the injuries. 

It’s a shame so many are letting aesthetics get in the way, because they are missing history. 

[David Selig]

Giannis has been great, but Harden is my MVP pick. What he did was remarkable. Not just his individual numbers which are insane, but the way he kept his team afloat despite CP3 missing 25 games and playing injured in several others early on, Capela missing 15, Eric Gordon shooting dreadfully in the first 2.5 months of the season, and the Rockets bench being a complete joke before they got Rivers and Faried. I don't think any other current player could have gotten the Rockets roster to 53 wins in this year's West under these circumstances.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 hours ago, Triskele said:

Portland fucked OKC's couch in OKC pretty hard while y'all were sleeping.  Feeling pretty good about getting out of this round now though can't sleep on it with Westbrook and George and the rest of that roster over there.  Really, really would love to close this out in game 5 while San Antonio and Denver go 7.  

 

On 4/12/2019 at 6:28 PM, Tywin et al. said:

 

Conference Finals 

Warriors over Thunder in 7

Bucks over Sixers in 6

 

It would appear that my prediction that the Thunder would take the Warriors to 7 in the Conference Finals was a bit off…
 

[SkynJay]

10 hours ago, Triskele said:

Portland fucked OKC's couch in OKC pretty hard while y'all were sleeping.  Feeling pretty good about getting out of this round now though can't sleep on it with Westbrook and George and the rest of that roster over there.  Really, really would love to close this out in game 5 while San Antonio and Denver go 7.  

When the playoffs started i thought there were two Western teams the Nuggets couldn't compete with (Warriors, Rockets), two teams that were 50/50 (Spurs, Jazz) and three teams the Nuggets could handle easy (Portland, LA, OKC).

If the Nuggets get past the Spurs I am more wary of Portland than I was, they are impressive.  

But while getting SA after seven games may help Portland I think winning a seven game series would give Denver a major edge.  Hard playoff experience against the best coach in the league for a team young enough that fatigue won't matter.

[Maithanet]

I'm definitely surprised that the one series that looks destined to go 7 is Nuggets-Spurs.  I probably didn't give the Spurs enough credit, but to me they looked like a slightly more talented version of Indiana.  A well coached, scrappy squad that lacks the talent to win when playoff intensity clicks in. 

I still think the Nuggets will take it in the end, but I'm a lot less confident than I was before the playoffs start.

But mostly I'm just waiting for round 2 to start.  Three of the four series are really exciting matchups featuring both championship aspirations and real upset possibilities.