NBA 2019 - Now the Joy in My World is in Zion

[Fez]

13 hours ago, briantw said:

Seems like the type of theory a GM who is a popular former player who completely failed to land any of his targets would float out there to make himself look like less of a fool.

Would I believe that Magic floated a fake theory to deflect blame? Sure. But I don't think that's the case here. Simmons is no one's mouthpiece except his own (and he doesn't have any special relationship with Magic) and he's perfectly happy to create his own wild theories with no evidence.

In this case, it certainly seems like something went wrong with George-to-the-Lakers, and, when it comes to speculation, this seems like as good a theory as any. Prior to him signing his contract with the Thunder, everyone thought he'd be going to Lakers. He even said in October that if he hadn't been traded to the Thunder, he would've gone to the Lakers. Maybe he did just fall in love with OKC. Or maybe Magic/LeBron/Rich Paul/someone said something that really offended him and he turned on the Lakers. Or maybe the League Office stepped in. We do know the league took the tampering case serious, Adam Silver has said publicly that league-hired investigators were seizing cell phones in summer 2017.

Regardless of the reason George isn't a Laker, that was clearly The Plan, and I think if it had happened there'd be zero conversation about how bad the Lakers' future looks right now and they'd be a #3 seed at worst right now.

[Jaime L]

3 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I wouldn't count of the Pacers holding onto the 3 seed.  Yes, they've held on admirably thus far, but I don't imagine they can keep it going down the stretch.  The Sixers are only half a game back, they are both talented and motivated to catch them.

I do need the Pacers to fall to at least the 4th seed. If they stay as the 3rd seed, it ruins the ideal Eastern Conference semis with the four loaded teams matching up because then Boston/Philly will play in round 1. Indy's scrappy as hell being as good as they are without Oladipo but their upside is limited. 

Also would much rather see Lebron (or the young Kings) in the playoffs than the star-less Clippers but that doesn't look to be all that likely anymore. Pretty much a must win for the Lakers tonight against the Clippers. 

[briantw]

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Fez said:

Regardless of the reason George isn't a Laker, that was clearly The Plan, and I think if it had happened there'd be zero conversation about how bad the Lakers' future looks right now and they'd be a #3 seed at worst right now.

The Lakers might have been the third seed this year if LeBron and Lonzo didn't get hurt. They had a bad start, but one that team got humming they were starting to do some real damage to good teams. 

[briantw]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The Lakers might have been the third seed this year if LeBron and Lonzo didn't get hurt. They had a bad start, but one that team got humming they were starting to do some real damage to good teams. 

Yeah, LeBron getting hurt is what cost them the playoffs.

Well, that and him trying to trade everyone for AD at the deadline and destroying what chemistry the team had.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, briantw said:

Yeah, LeBron getting hurt is what cost them the playoffs.

Well, that and him trying to trade everyone for AD at the deadline and destroying what chemistry the team had.

You have to believe the young guys are giving him all the side eye in the locker room.

[briantw]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You have to believe the young guys are giving him all the side eye in the locker room.

I will say, it's funny seeing the media actually call him out on his bullshit this year after they largely enabled him the past four years in Cleveland because they wanted to push him to a big market.  LeBron basically threw games intentionally for an entire month last year and the media took his side.  

[Fez]

16 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You have to believe the young guys are giving him all the side eye in the locker room.

I wonder how much effect chemistry like that actually has on gameplay though. So long as the players know what they are supposed to be doing on the court (and are able to do), does it really matter if they don't like each other?

I'm sure it can eventually reach a point where it does; like if two players had a physical altercation in the locker room, maybe they would refuse to pass the ball to each other again. But are things like trade talk going to do something?

When I think of the importance of team chemistry, I think of it in terms of how the players' playstyles gel with each other on the court, not locker room chemistry.

[DMC]

The Magic are now the 8th seed.  What.  The.  Fuck.

[briantw]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

I wonder how much effect chemistry like that actually has on gameplay though. So long as the players know what they are supposed to be doing on the court (and are able to do), does it really matter if they don't like each other?

I'm sure it can eventually reach a point where it does; like if two players had a physical altercation in the locker room, maybe they would refuse to pass the ball to each other again. But are things like trade talk going to do something?

When I think of the importance of team chemistry, I think of it in terms of how the players' playstyles gel with each other on the court, not locker room chemistry.

I think it has an effect on effort more than anything.  If you hate your job or your fellow employees, you're more likely to half ass it and give poor effort.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 hours ago, Fez said:

I wonder how much effect chemistry like that actually has on gameplay though. So long as the players know what they are supposed to be doing on the court (and are able to do), does it really matter if they don't like each other?

I'm sure it can eventually reach a point where it does; like if two players had a physical altercation in the locker room, maybe they would refuse to pass the ball to each other again. But are things like trade talk going to do something?

When I think of the importance of team chemistry, I think of it in terms of how the players' playstyles gel with each other on the court, not locker room chemistry.

 

15 hours ago, briantw said:

I think it has an effect on effort more than anything.  If you hate your job or your fellow employees, you're more likely to half ass it and give poor effort.

Yeah I think Brian hit it on the head. If you hate what you’re doing, why give maximum effort? And given that being just a step slower can be the difference, I think it has a rather large impact.  

[Maithanet]

It seems unlikely that effort is the primary place where team mistrust and discontent comes up.  All these players are professionals and know that their game tape and statistics will have a huge impact on their future earnings and job security.  They have a very strong incentive to play with great effort. 

Instead, I would think that communication would suffer, along with anticipation, flexibility and creativity.  People will play just looking out for themselves, whether it is playing hero ball to improve your stats or playing sound man defense but not helping your teammates when they get beat.  Maybe instead of flashing into the lane to disrupt an entry pass, you just stay where you are and make sure your guy isn't open for a 3.  That sort of thing. 

[briantw]

Most guys aren't in a contract year though so their performance isn't of immediate importance.

[Maithanet]

Just now, briantw said:

Most guys aren't in a contract year though so their performance isn't of immediate importance.

Your performance matters more in contract years, but it always matters. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

28 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

It seems unlikely that effort is the primary place where team mistrust and discontent comes up.  All these players are professionals and know that their game tape and statistics will have a huge impact on their future earnings and job security.  They have a very strong incentive to play with great effort. 

Idk man, there are some pretty legendary stories about players being drunk in game.   

[Maithanet]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk man, there are some pretty legendary stories about players being drunk in game.   

On this Lakers team? 

I mean, sure there are a few guys who've done that historically, but they're mostly guys talented enough to stay in the league even when they're doing stupid stuff (otherwise they wash out in short order - coaches don't tolerate drunk bench players).  There's only one guy on the Lakers that talented, and I'm pretty sure he's not drinking on game nights. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

49 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

On this Lakers team? 

I mean, sure there are a few guys who've done that historically, but they're mostly guys talented enough to stay in the league even when they're doing stupid stuff (otherwise they wash out in short order - coaches don't tolerate drunk bench players).  There's only one guy on the Lakers that talented, and I'm pretty sure he's not drinking on game nights. 

Not that I know of. But the point is pro-athletes are humans too, and while some are incredibly professional, others are not, and it’s easy to see guys not giving max effort when they feel dejected at work.    

[briantw]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Not that I know of. But the point is pro-athletes are humans too, and while some are incredibly professional, others are not, and it’s easy to see guys not giving max effort when they feel dejected at work.    

Yeah.  Again, LeBron literally spent an entire month last year giving shit effort to throw games and send a message to the front office.  This happens all the time.

I also think defense is where poor effort really shows up.  Guys are still gonna try to get theirs offensively, but if they aren't happy a lot of times you see them dog it on defense.

[Jaime L]

10 minutes ago, briantw said:

Yeah.  Again, LeBron literally spent an entire month last year giving shit effort to throw games and send a message to the front office.  This happens all the time.

I also think defense is where poor effort really shows up.  Guys are still gonna try to get theirs offensively, but if they aren't happy a lot of times you see them dog it on defense.

Related:

 

[briantw]