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Who is the 3EC?


kissdbyfire

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21 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

No. I think there are many tidbits in the D&E stories that “fit” nicely into the main saga. Clues, and bits of information, that sort of thing. But I still think that when all is said and done, they won’t be necessary for the reader to puzzle things out. :dunno: 

I think of it as non-essential reading in the sense you don’t need to read it to make sense of the main series. But for those who do read the extra materials, there is some small payoff in the form of Easter eggs and cameos. Robin Hobb is another author who does this, making her trilogies stand alone but including things which are rewarding if you have read her other stuff.

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I secret eyed the last bit. Sometimes it slips my mind that not everyone has been there yet. :)

When a first time reader of ASOIAF book one thru five ventures into a fan site it is not as interesting as it was in 2011.

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4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Funny story (no, it isn't). A long time ago in a forum far, far away, @Prince of the North (I believe) had to give me a few clouts in the ear, setting me straight on who... 

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Maynard Plumm actually is. I soooo wanted Maynard to be a loyal Raven's Tooth, but nope, that moonstone was working just too hard to deny it any further :cheers:

 

Well, I sincerely hope I didn't come across like I was "clouting" in the ear!  If so, I apologize.  I was probably just still excited about finding out something new or figuring out one of Martin's many mysteries:)

Something I think people may find of interest about The Mystery Knight:

Spoiler

With the idea that Ser Maynard Plumm is really Bloodraven in disguise to infiltrate yet another Blackfyre conspiracy, it's really fun to think back on or re-read the beginning of the story.  That seemingly innocent camp chatter among Dunk and Plumm and the others is really cheeky on Bloodraven's part.  Also, I just thought of another thing: Bloodraven disguised as Plumm is yet another mystery knight in The Mystery Knight;)

17 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

No. I think there are many tidbits in the D&E stories that “fit” nicely into the main saga. Clues, and bits of information, that sort of thing. But I still think that when all is said and done, they won’t be necessary for the reader to puzzle things out. :dunno: 

Agreed.  There were some of us who strongly suspected Bloodraven being the Three-Eyed Crow fully five years before it was "confirmed" in ADWD.  In this case, I believe Martin gave readers everything they need to come to this conclusion simply in the symbolism of the name "Three-Eyed Crow" and the backstory supplied for Bloodraven in ASoIaF.  That's certainly how it worked for us.
 

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5 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I think of it as non-essential reading in the sense you don’t need to read it to make sense of the main series. But for those who do read the extra materials, there is some small payoff in the form of Easter eggs and cameos. Robin Hobb is another author who does this, making her trilogies stand alone but including things which are rewarding if you have read her other stuff.

Yes, that’s a great way of putting it. :)

But I’ll add that, even if they didn’t add anything in terms of payoff (re solving main saga mysteries), they’re just so absolutely delightful! Have I said how much I love the D&E novellas? :wub: :wub: :wub:

 

4 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

When a first time reader of ASOIAF book one thru five ventures into a fan site it is not as interesting as it was in 2011.

I’m not sure I get your full meaning here... but irt discussions in 2011 and now... well, 2011 we had a new book out, with shitloads new stuff to discuss...

The Varamyr prologue, the PL, the CotF, the Harpy, greyscale, a walk of shame, assassination attempts - on both Jon and Dany’s lives, no less! And lots more. 

I think it’s to be expected that the same discussions are going to pop up time and again... Martin is quite masterful at it, actually. Clues, red herrings, foreshadowing, and it’s up to the reader to decide what’s what. Until Winter arrives, that is! :D

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Well, I sincerely hope I didn't come across like I was "clouting" in the ear!  If so, I apologize.  I was probably just still excited about finding out something new or figuring out one of Martin's many mysteries:)

Only in the best, most helpful way possible :cheers:  I chuckle at myself now for past blunders. 

 

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20 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I think of it as non-essential reading in the sense you don’t need to read it to make sense of the main series. But for those who do read the extra materials, there is some small payoff in the form of Easter eggs and cameos. Robin Hobb is another author who does this, making her trilogies stand alone but including things which are rewarding if you have read her other stuff.

Thirded. Great way to put it. 

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I find his hesitation perfectly natural. Same goes for his foggy memory... He should be dead, but he had to wait, he had to linger... and it’s being hooked up to the heart tree that allows him to do so. 

So, I don’t really see anything that would make me think he isn’t the 3EC. And again, as with so much else, there’s room to question this only because that’s how Martin rolls. And why we love him.

Well, I love his puzzles.  His work ethic and productivity might stand a little tinkering.  :cool4:

We agree it's an ambiguous issue, very much by design.  Conclusions aren't going to be reached until at least one more book.

However, if Bloodraven is the 3EC, then all this follows:

 1) Bloodraven chose to appear as the 3EC in Bran's coma dream in AGOT and he knew he appeared as a crow in that dream (as the dialogue shows)

2) He changed his tone and language completely for some reason from the tone and language we find him using in ADWD

3) He kept appearing as the 3EC in multiple dreams, all through ACOK

4) Then, by ADWD, Bloodraven somehow forgot about all these crow appearances (!) and indeed,

5) He seems never to have heard of a 3EC at all -- the phrase has no meaning to him except for the Night's Watch.

Which really makes him seem a little beyond foggy, and entering the realm of dissociative identity disorder. 

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Spoiler

That is so so so true! Cheeky, that’s it! 

It’s one of many reasons why I just love Bloodraven so much, he is so fucking cheeky! :D

 

16 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Also, I just thought of another thing: Bloodraven disguised as Plumm is yet another mystery knight in The Mystery Knight;)

:wideeyed:

Love it! :thumbsup:

16 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Agreed.  There were some of us who strongly suspected Bloodraven being the Three-Eyed Crow fully five years before it was "confirmed" in ADWDIn this case, I believe Martin gave readers everything they need to come to this conclusion simply in the symbolism of the name "Three-Eyed Crow" and the backstory supplied for Bloodraven in ASoIaF.  That's certainly how it worked for us.

Thank you! Since I started this thread I’ve been trying to remember this and couldn’t.

If memory serves - and it doesn’t, and should be sacked! - the notion that BR = 3EC is a thing since at least ASoS? Or even before? I don’t remember!!! :bang:

But I’m fairly certain the idea was there well before Dance, and that was sort of confirmation. For me, anyway. :dunno:

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28 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

When a first time reader of ASOIAF book one thru five ventures into a fan site it is not as interesting as it was in 2011.

Speaking for myself, I never used any fan forum until I joined here a few years ago. I enjoy the bits and pieces people talk about that I may have forgot, missed, or never knew. That makes me want to read more. In general I do think the main series of books can stand alone. The rest is Wavy Gravy  ;)

Im sorry if this isn’t your experience. 

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12 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I think it’s to be expected that the same discussions are going to pop up time and again... Martin is quite masterful at it, actually. Clues, red herrings, foreshadowing, and it’s up to the reader to decide what’s what. Until Winter arrives, that is! :D

Cool beans.  You and your sister or brother dunna need to to be all Cardi B.

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5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Speaking for myself, I never used any fan forum until I joined here a few years ago. I enjoy the bits and pieces people talk about that I may have forgot, missed, or never knew. That makes me want to read more. In general I do think the main series of books can stand alone. The rest is Wavy Gravy  ;)

Im sorry if this isn’t your experience. 

Yep, and when you joined you knew every frekking thing martin wrote or is going to write.

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25 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I believe Brynden Bloodraven Rivers is the three-eyed crow. 

 

24 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

@Clegane'sPup, to quote myself in the OP... ^^

:cheers:

So do we get to pick which triumvirate we are? I vote Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg and Margate Garlick. Dibs i’m Nanny Ogg :P 

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6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

@Clegane'sPup, to quote myself in the OP... ^^

:cheers:

 

If a reader wants to get all technical, martin missed the mark. When was the first book published?

Yes, let us posters have fun stipulating and speculating until some where far off into the future...,

using the information from the five books proper

OMG WTF   who is Bran's 3EC

provide some paltry juicy tid bit

Adjusting my antenna.  Kissed you and your internet partner ain't cute no more. Kick  me off the site @HelenaExMachina

 

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40 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

 

So do we get to pick which triumvirate we are? I vote Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg and Margate Garlick. Dibs i’m Nanny Ogg :P 

Aaah excellent! :thumbsup:

There’s also Rose, Dorothy, and Sophia - dibs on Rose b/c Betty White. 

And now I really wish Eddie and Patsy were a trio! :D

 

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