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MagicPen

Why did Roose spare Ramsey's life?

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After he killed Domeric? I for one struggle to find a logical explanation to this:

- The absence of definitive proof, wouldn't stop a man like Roose. Ie he wanted Ramsey dead, he would have killed him based on suspicion alone.

- Because he is without a male heir? And is keeping him as an option to legitimise in case he doesn't get more sons? That would be rather short sited for a man as smart as Roose. He could simply legitimise any bastard out there, and claim him as his own. I don't think anyone would have any trouble believing it, and if they did they would keep their mouths shut, due them probably not wanting their skin turned inside out.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, MagicPen said:

After he killed Domeric? I for one struggle to find a logical explanation to this:

- The absence of definitive proof, wouldn't stop a man like Roose. Ie he wanted Ramsey dead, he would have killed him based on suspicion alone.

- Because he is without a male heir? And is keeping him as an option to legitimise in case he doesn't get more sons? That would be rather short sited for a man as smart as Roose. He could simply legitimise any bastard out there, and claim him as his own. I don't think anyone would have any trouble believing it, and if they did they would keep their mouths shut, due them probably not wanting their skin turned inside out.

 

 

 

-Roose seems to obey the "no kinslaying" rule.

-He had to be sure that it was his, not some woman trying to pull a con. It was only when he saw his own eyes in Ramsay's that he was his son. 

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The relations between Roose and Ramsay is a weird one.  This is a fair question to ask.  I have my pet theory.  Roose is cognizant of the Long Winter.  The time is short.  He does not have the time to raise another son to manhood.  What he told Theon is only partly true.  He hides the truth from his people and he means to survive the winter in his newly acquired castle with its hot spring.  Roose has a plan to keep Ramsay alive.  At least someone in the Bolton family will be alive when the winter finally gives way to spring.  Roose is too old to live through the long winter but Ramsay is young enough.  

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"Ramsay killed him. A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison. In the Vale, Domeric had enjoyed the company of Redfort's sons. He wanted a brother by his side, so he rode up the Weeping Water to seek my bastard out. I forbade it, but Domeric was a man grown and thought that he knew better than his father. Now his bones lie beneath the Dreadfort with the bones of his brothers, who died still in the cradle, and I am left with Ramsay. Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?"

The question frightened him. Once he had heard Skinner say that the Bastard had killed his trueborn brother, but he had never dared to believe it. He could be wrong. Brothers die sometimes, it does not mean that they were killed. My brothers died, and I never killed them.

Like Roose said, whats he gonna do? Kinslay? That leaves hims back at square one.

But really what Theon thinks, wheres the proof that Rams did it? It may have been Roose who killed Domeric and blamed Ramsay so he wouldnt lose favor with Dustin.

And also, why would he? Ramsay has brought house Bolton to greater accomplishments then its entire ancient history, would Domeric be able to have done that?

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6 hours ago, MagicPen said:

After he killed Domeric? I for one struggle to find a logical explanation to this:

- The absence of definitive proof, wouldn't stop a man like Roose. Ie he wanted Ramsey dead, he would have killed him based on suspicion alone.

- Because he is without a male heir? And is keeping him as an option to legitimise in case he doesn't get more sons? That would be rather short sited for a man as smart as Roose. He could simply legitimise any bastard out there, and claim him as his own. I don't think anyone would have any trouble believing it, and if they did they would keep their mouths shut, due them probably not wanting their skin turned inside out.

 

 

 

Here is how I square it, but admittedly, it's out there:

Roose is the last surviving son of the Night King and his Corpse Bride. That makes him half human and half Other or half wight, depending on what his mother was. As the NK's heir, little Roose would have inherited his father's pre-Nights Watch lands and titles, which would have made him Lord of the Dreadfort or perhaps the next King of Winter. Either way, Roose quickly discovered he had a unique talent: he can father children on human children, wait until they come of age, then kill them, skin them (thus the flayed man sigil) and wear their skins to create a perfect likeness -- except for the eyes, which remain milky white.

So this is what Roose has been doing for the past 8000 years or so, fathering the next lord of whatever house he happens to occupy, then killing that man and assuming his identity. His previous body will have just died, of course, so he continues on as the new lord.

This is why Roose:

Has virtually no hair

Never sweats

Is able to silence big boisterous loudmouths like the Greatjon with barely a whisper

Must leech himself constantly, to prevent the black blood from pooling in his hands and feet

Is still able to see even though his irises are nearly pure white. This simply is not possible otherwise, as white irises always result in blindness. Even albinos have pink or even red irises.

This is also why Roose was able to tell instantly that Ramsay was his just by looking at his eyes. And it is also the reason why he knows the Domeric was not his (he was most likely Brandon's) and therefore Roose could not wear his skin to remain as Lord of the DF. So by sparing Rams for Doms' murder, and then legitimizing him and naming him his heir, Roose not only sets himself up to remain as lord of the DF, but lord of Winterfell as well.

This is not to say that Roose has not ruled in Winterfell before. Remember the tale of Brandon "Ice-Eyes" Stark? That was Roose.

Lady Dustin had the right of it:

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 Roose has no feelings, you see. Those leeches that he loves so well sucked all the passions out of him years ago. He does not love, he does not hate, he does not grieve. This is a game to him, mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings.

When you are thousands of years old, men come and go like mice, and it's a game to muck with their piddling short-sighted concerns. 

So at some point going forward in the series, Roose will die. When that happens, see if Ramsay doesn't suddenly calm down, start leeching himself and speaking in whispers.

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Bolton-On is kind of fun but I don't believe it is true. My favorite theory is that Domeric was actually Brandon's son and when he returned from the Vale Roose realized this. However I don't think he had the boy killed; I think everyone just thinks he did. I'd wager the Old Man in the dungeons of the Dreadfort is severely malnourished Domeric. Perhaps Roose thought a bastard of Winterfell could be a useful tool if kept alive and used under the right circumstances? Perhaps as well... he did yet have some affinity for the boy and could not bring himself to kill him. I know that Barbrey says that Roose has no feelings but I think she's wrong. The emotionless demeanor is an act Roose uses for strategic purposes because it makes him hard to read. I think his reminiscing about Domeric does indicate a sense of loss and frustration at being robbed of a good heir (either because that heir was killed or because he realized that heir was not his). Roose would become a bit boring if he was just a monster and didn't have any humanity to him. He's cold and ruthless, but I do think he is human and even capable of at least slight, safe, self-interested compassion or affinity for others such as Domeric, Fat Walda, or even Barbrey whom he seems to regard as an equal.

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6 hours ago, Annalee said:

The relations between Roose and Ramsay is a weird one.  This is a fair question to ask.  I have my pet theory.  Roose is cognizant of the Long Winter.  The time is short.  He does not have the time to raise another son to manhood.  What he told Theon is only partly true.  He hides the truth from his people and he means to survive the winter in his newly acquired castle with its hot spring.  Roose has a plan to keep Ramsay alive.  At least someone in the Bolton family will be alive when the winter finally gives way to spring.  Roose is too old to live through the long winter but Ramsay is young enough.  

Ramsay isn't exactly preparing for winter, is he? He made a feast out of the dregs of livestock, showing that he doesn't care if he doesn't have food for the winter.

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Kinslaying is an heinous crime and it is said that who practices it's cursed, maybe Roose feared that. And because he needed an heir.

 

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Now his bones lie beneath the Dreadfort with the bones of his brothers, who died still in the cradle, and I am left with Ramsay.

This is a man who definitely has been trying to father more heirs, but he knows logically that it's not likely to happen. So Ramsey is his last hope at this point.

I believe that Ramsey killed Domeric. It's definitely in his nature, and it makes no sense for Roose to kill Domeric or have him killed - unless he wasn't anything like Roose wanted him to be. I don't believe we know too much about Domeric, so it's possible that this could be another Sam & Randyll situation, but it seems an unnecessary backstory, and Ramsey killing him seems more likely.
 

Roose is very cold and calculating, but also seems to strangely be very careful of breaking the laws of the old gods. He definitely betrays Robb during the Wedding, but from his point of view Robb has broken his oath to Walder, and the Freys are technically the hosts. Flaying enemies is not very honourable obviously, and it's considered barbaric in the current days of Westeros but it was accepted as their way back in the day.

Based on these things, I find it hard to see Roose being ok with Kinslaying. So I would expect this is why he did not kill or have someone else kill Domeric and/or Ramsey at any point. 

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Roose is afraid of kinslaying. He would not kill Ramsay himself. But he doesn't care if Ramsay kills his brothers.

In fact, he seems only to care for house Bolton having a strong heir. And sees Ramsay as his best option.

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If she pops out sons the way she pops in tarts, the Dreadfort will soon be overrun with Boltons. Ramsay will kill them all, of course. That’s for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House.

 

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