Helaena Targaryen's death

[Lucia Targaryen]

The general consensus is that Helaena committed suicide by throwing herself onto spikes but could it be something else?

I believe that she was murdered but not by Rhaenyra as some think. If there was anyone Rhaenyra wanted to throw out a window it would be Alicent.

I think it was Larys Strong or one of his agents. Larys is very much like Varys and what does he do at the end of Dance? Kill Pycelle and Kevan. It's also implied that Varys caused the riot in King's Landing and what happened after Helaena died? A riot.

Ergo, I think Helaena was killed by Larys.

[the Last Teague]

Interesting theory. THe Clubfoot was as cruel as Littlefinger. And mad as she was, poor Helaena had outlived her utility.

[Eltharion21]

3 hours ago, EvanSol919 said:

The general consensus is that Helaena committed suicide by throwing herself onto spikes but could it be something else?

I believe that she was murdered but not by Rhaenyra as some think. If there was anyone Rhaenyra wanted to throw out a window it would be Alicent.

I think it was Larys Strong or one of his agents. Larys is very much like Varys and what does he do at the end of Dance? Kill Pycelle and Kevan. It's also implied that Varys caused the riot in King's Landing and what happened after Helaena died? A riot.

Ergo, I think Helaena was killed by Larys.

Larys may have used her death to incite people more against the Black regime.

But I doubt that he killed her. Helaena was threat to Rhaenyra unlike Alicent.

In my opinion either Rhaenyra killed her or Mysaria influenced her suicide. Either way Rhaenyra was responsible for her death.

 Alicent had been left alive only to see every member of her family be killed , that seems lot like sort of torture and not much of show how merciful Rhaenyra was.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

Helaena commited suicide after learning from Mysaria about Maelor's fate. She seems to be greatly embitered and vindictive and showed signs of cruelty to Helaena when she proposed the Brothel Queens. Helaena was Aegon's queen and a valuable hostage to Rhaenyra. I believe Rhaenyra would have killed her only after Alicent's sons where dead.

[Lord Varys]

Mysaria had no reason to help Rhaenyra's cause. She helped to destroy her with her stupid advice in the Nettles affair, most likely motivated by jealousy or something else. It is rather odd that Mysaria shows up at court wearing the Targaryen colors, is it not...? Not to mention the fact that Gyldayn actually cares to mention the color of her wardrobe. Did he ever do that for somebody else during the Dance?

My guess is that Mysaria may be a daughter of Princess Saera born in Lys. 

The point where Rhaenyra should have killed Helaena and Alicent was when she took the castle. And Alicent later, before she left the castle. That she didn't think of that makes pretty much no sense. She should have dragged Alicent and Corlys Velaryon along or killed them - not leave them behind. That made no sense at all.

Killing Helaena in a manner that would outrage the public in at a crucial point in the war makes no sense at all. If Mysaria had anything to do with her death she wouldn't have acted on Rhaenyra's orders, especially since the story that blamed Rhaenyra that was repeated blamed Luthor Largent for the deed, and he simply wasn't in the castle when it happened.

[The hairy bear]

17 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The point where Rhaenyra should have killed Helaena and Alicent was when she took the castle. And Alicent later, before she left the castle. That she didn't think of that makes pretty much no sense

There's a strong taboo against kin-slaying in Westeros. Killing Ser Otto and Jasper Wylde is one thing, but executing your half-sister and your father's wife is a whole nother league (specially if you have no proofs that they had been instigators of the coup).

I'm fully aware that Aemond killed Lucerys, Daemon ordered the murder of one of Helaena's boys and Aegon II would kill her sister. But I could see Rhaenyra not willing to go to that extent.

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, The hairy bear said:

There's a strong taboo against kin-slaying in Westeros. Killing Ser Otto and Jasper Wylde is one thing, but executing your half-sister and your father's wife is a whole nother league (specially if you have no proofs that they had been instigators of the coup).

I'm fully aware that Aemond killed Lucerys, Daemon ordered the murder of one of Helaena's boys and Aegon II would kill her sister. But I could see Rhaenyra not willing to go to that extent.

Sure, no issue with any of that. I just meant that if Rhaenyra wanted to kill either Alicent or Helaena she would have done so when she took the city or before she left the city, either in a public manner along with the other executions or behind closed doors with the dead guys just 'disappearing'.

That Helaena died the way she did makes it very unlikely she was killed (at Rhaenyra's command).

But I've to say that I don't think the taboo of kinslaying stayed Rhaenyra's hand in relation to Alicent. If she truly despised her as much as Alicent despised her (and there are hints that Alicent's hatred was actually much stronger) then killing your stepmother for a crime she definitely was involved in should trump the kinslaying issue here. Step-kin are not true relations as can be seen in the fact that Rhaenyra executed her step-grandfather in Otto.

In that sense, I'm inclined to think that it was only respect and love for her father that stayed her hand in Alicent's case (she says as much herself), whereas in Helaena's case there might have been both some feelings for this least dangerous of half-siblings in combination with the kinslaying taboo.

Overall, though, it is quite clear that Rhaenyra had no intention to actually kill all the descendants of Alicent. Even during the war she only wanted to see those men dead who took up arms against her - and that's overall not unreasonable.