US Politics: Make Thread Titles Great Again

[ThinkerX]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

The unresolved NC-9 election looks like it's heading for a redo.

Of course, this magnanimous gesture from Harris comes only after several people said that they committed election fraud on behalf of Harris, and that Harris' own son warned him not to hire Leslie MacCrae Dowless because he engaged in election fraud in the past. 

If the shoe were on the other foot, Trump would bring up Leslie McCrae Dowless every day for the next two years.  But since he's a Republican committing election fraud, nary a peep.

I have been reading comments on political articles about this.  Multiple republican/conservative posters are adamant that the fraud in this case is all on the democratic side - and get extremely hostile when told otherwise.

[Zorral]

Still, when it comes to beer -- and not even in college though it was the case for him in college too -- high school ... and ... Kavanaugh.  He's a Supreme Court Justice now.  Let us NOT FORGET.

[Fragile Bird]

I am just stunned at the anger in Chicago being directed at Smollett. They went into so much detail about the evidence, detail I have never seen a police department reveal before, not only putting nails in his coffin but taking a nail gun and using a thousand nails to hammer that coffin shut. 

Pretty sad all round.

[ThinkerX]

I suppose, in a way, this is a legitimate triumph of Trumps otherwise horrendous immigration policies.  legal guest workers, after all, do have better status and protections than illegal immigrants, and that is the trend being forced here.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/with-fewer-undocumented-workers-to-hire-us-farmers-are-fueling-a-surge-in-the-number-of-legal-guest-workers/ar-BBTUHZW?ocid=msnclassic

 

DURANGO, Mexico —For decades, U.S. farmers, landscapers and builders tapped a seemingly endless supply of cheap labor: the waves of undocumented immigrants coming across the southern border. The workers arrived in time for harvests and construction booms. They did the low-wage manual labor that Americans were unwilling to do.

...

For the White House, that might be a triumph. But for the agriculture industry, the impact is acute. Each year, its labor force dwindles.

 

To fill those positions, employers have turned to temporary visa programs that recruit workers in Mexico and Central America. Since 2016, the number of U.S. agricultural visas has grown from 165,000 to 242,000, a record high, according to the Labor Department. Amid an intractable debate over immigration and border security, America’s labor force is quietly being transformed, as many employers see no choice but to shift from illegal to legal labor.

Visa recruiters are now driving into remote villages in Mexico, broadcasting their hiring sprees on portable radios, loudspeakers and Facebook ads. In rural America, farmers are converting hotels into dormitories for visiting Mexican apple-pickers.

Despite his claim that immigrants take jobs away from Americans, President Trump has touted the guest worker program, acknowledging the difficulty in finding American manual laborers and pledging to make it easier for farmers to hire workers legally.

The country’s temporary foreign worker program includes a category for nonagricultural jobs, known as H-2B visas. Despite a huge demand from industries that are also struggling to replace undocumented workers — such as shrimping and hospitality — H-2B visas are capped annually at 66,000.

 

[Gertrude]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

Kamala's dad and "musing" about PC culture have absolutely no correlation.  If you want to do the latter, cheers.  Probably agree with you.  But acting like there's any relationship between an ugly parent and PC-ness is kind of offensive in and of itself.  Honestly, what does anything about that have to do with PC?  It's a father shitting on his own daughter.

My musing was probably sparked by her Dad's response, but I never brought her dad into it once. It is the latter, and I think if I wasn't clear in my original post, it became clear through my follow-ups. But go ahead, keep yelling at me because apparently I'm evil and offensive.

[Altherion]

23 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I am just stunned at the anger in Chicago being directed at Smollett.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Make no mistake, there is a lot of anger in the US within the people who are not doing well, but are not included in the set of groups favored by academia, the media and the elites. Ordinarily, they cannot express this anger as they will be demonized and punished for it, but this incident presents a rare acceptable target.

And incidentally, it's not just Breitbart and Trump supporters who are behind this. Here's a view from the kind of Christian conservative that used to be mainstream a few years ago:

Quote

Having learned about a few undeniable evils that existed in the recent past—slavery, Nazi concentration camps, Jim Crow—they’ve seized on the notion of “History” as a moral force that trends in one direction, the direction of progress.

History has a right side and a wrong side, and that line—however vague and changeable it might appear—is what separates good from evil. What’s more, we can look at our sample of known historical events and determine who the good and evil actors are. The oppressors are wicked, and the oppressed are righteous.

This moral framework leads to an inescapable conclusion: victimhood is the highest virtue. Victims and members of oppressed identity groups are elevated to a kind of sainthood in the progressive religion. Those who are more oppressed have more moral authority and are thus more worthy to speak, set policy, and make demands. This is in fact exactly what intersectionality teaches, complete with a hierarchy of victimhood for comparing everyone’s relative righteousness.

Is it any wonder, then, so many Americans are desperately trying to portray themselves as victims?

 

[Mudguard]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

I am just stunned at the anger in Chicago being directed at Smollett. They went into so much detail about the evidence, detail I have never seen a police department reveal before, not only putting nails in his coffin but taking a nail gun and using a thousand nails to hammer that coffin shut. 

Pretty sad all round.

It's a very high profile case, with a really bizarre set of facts.  A lot of people came out in support of Smollett when he went public with his allegations, and he fanned the flames himself by doing an interview with ABC where he vehemently maintained his story and criticized the doubters.  A lot of people probably feed betrayed and/or let down by him.  I'm not surprised a lot of people are angry and disgusted by him.

I didn't see the court hearing, but if the evidence presented was as damning as you are implying, then he has been flat out lying to everyone's face for the last several weeks, and he's still lying.  Maybe the police laid out so much evidence in an effort to persuade Smollett to accept a plea bargain deal as quick as possible so that people can move on from this.  Assuming Smollett is guilty and there aren't anymore twists, the quicker he pleads guilty and issues an apology, the better for him and everyone else.

It's very possible that he's done some damage to other victims (past, present, and future) of hate crimes.  Some people are going to wonder whether the victim is telling the truth if there isn't any corroborating evidence, and consequently, some victims may feel that it's not worth the trouble filing a police report if they are just going to be subjected to doubt and ridicule.

ETA: And for the record, if Smollett is indeed guilty of planning this whole thing and filing a false police report, I hope he loses his job and goes to jail.  I really have no sympathy for this type of behavior.  Trying to personally gain off the pain and suffering of real victims of hate crimes?  That's really low.

[Fragile Bird]

I think the police laid out so much evidence because they were pissed. Seriously pissed. And don't forget, they have a very troubled relationship with the black population of Chicago.

[Mudguard]

1 minute ago, Fragile Bird said:

I think the police laid out so much evidence because they were pissed. Seriously pissed. And don't forget, they have a very troubled relationship with the black population of Chicago.

The police chief was definitely pissed.  I read some of his statements condemning Smollett, and he was absolutely disgusted by Smollett's actions.

[Fragile Bird]

15 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

The police chief was definitely pissed.  I read some of his statements condemning Smollett, and he was absolutely disgusted by Smollett's actions.

Well, the police chief's statement went waaaaaaay beyond what it should have. Why, for example, was it relative that one of the brothers sold Smollett recreational drugs, except to turn public opinion against him even more than the basic facts would have?

[Varysblackfyre321]

7 hours ago, S John said:

Funny thing to me about the Harris situation is that (at least according to the article linked up thread) she admitted to smoking ‘a’ joint in college.  A joint? One?  Really? 

The political calculus that must have gone into it is amusing to me.  OK team, we can admit to doing it - that should make the stoners happy and make it seem like we don’t have a stick up our ass- but only exactly ONE TIME.  In Harris’ defense, that’s probably what she disclosed on her security clearance forms and would be well advised to keep that consistent with public statements.  

In 1992 Clinton got away with admitting smoking weed but NOT inhaling.  In 27 years we’ve now moved on to ‘yea I smoked a joint for real - but only ONE!’  Progress is slow going sometimes.  I am curious to see how this kind of thing plays out in 20-30 years when weed (and derived products) will have been legal in many US states for the formative years of future politicians.  Back in my rebellious youth I ate ONE weed gummy bear that I got in Colorado!

We would never treat alcohol this way.  Nobody goes around saying, I admit to having A beer in college.  It’s perfectly fine to have gotten rip roarin’ fuckin’ wasted in college and it won’t hurt political chances whatsoever, yet it’s so much more immediately destructive.  Don’t get me wrong I like a few rounds of adult beverages myself now and again, but IMO regularly getting drunk is a lot more irresponsible than regularly getting high.  I’d be much more inclined to trust a stoner with something delicate or of importance than a drunk.  Like if I’m going out of town and I want someone to feed my goldfish, the stoner is getting that job.  

Doesn’t necessarily mean I want an active stoner behind the helm either, I just think it’s dumb that politicians need to treat marijuana with kid gloves while we elect politicians we’d ‘like to have a beer with.’  

In 2050 perhaps candidates will get to edibles. They could say they they put the treats in their mouths but didn’t swallow. In 2080 maybe we’ll we can move on to candidates admitting to swallowing.

Its really weird how scared America is still of a plant that’s side effects typically just mean lazing around for a few hours and eating junk food.

[Mudguard]

11 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Well, the police chief's statement went waaaaaaay beyond what it should have. Why, for example, was it relative that one of the brothers sold Smollett recreational drugs, except to turn public opinion against him even more than the basic facts would have?

To help establish a relationship between that brother and Smollett that would explain why Smollett would feel comfortable planning an unlawful activity with him? 

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

My musing was probably sparked by her Dad's response, but I never brought her dad into it once. It is the latter, and I think if I wasn't clear in my original post, it became clear through my follow-ups. But go ahead, keep yelling at me because apparently I'm evil and offensive.

It’s really low-tier offensive at worst. It was said jokingly with no real malicious intent. I don’t see it as being particularly more offensive or even close to the jokes some mainstream comedians do. I imagine if Harris had been a comedian most of the right that is lambasting her over this would laugh at the snowflakes of the left. To be clear I understand you yourself aren’t attacking Harris over this. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

16 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

While I'm no defender of the electoral college, I think there are perhaps two bigger issues. One is the winner take all system. And second big issue is the US Supreme Court, I think, needs to ditch its framework about money and free speech. Right now, it seems to believe that the mere act of giving money is tantamount to free speech. What it seems not to consider is that perhaps the guy with the biggest bull horn wins the argument, and not necessarily the guy with the better argument.

One of the principle traditional liberal justifications for free speech is that it is supposed to help us find the truth and hence improve democratic outcomes. The Supreme Court, at this time, seems to be pretty oblivious to the the idea that too much money may in fact harm the search for truth or democratic outcomes.

True. At a certain point a donation just becomes a bribe.  I wonder if Trump won the popular vote and Clinton the EC  there’d be a more joint effort to abolish it. Trump himself raved about in 2012 when it looked like Obama would win through the popular vote but lose the EC.  I don’t know, until the republican party loses because of the thing, I think any efforts to reform it or abolish it would be faced with too much obstruction. 

[Martell Spy]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

Well, the police chief's statement went waaaaaaay beyond what it should have. Why, for example, was it relative that one of the brothers sold Smollett recreational drugs, except to turn public opinion against him even more than the basic facts would have?

Well, we have to remember, this is the Chicago Police Department of the infamous Torture Warehouse. They had better have good evidence.

Also, if he guilty of a false report it is just one rather sad incident. Trumpites remain on the wrong side of history. And even the plutocrats who manipulate Trumpites to gain more tax cuts know this. And as exciting as it might be to have a KKK empire in 2020, the right-wing revolt is led by a rather stupid reality-star. 

[DMC]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Go drink some more of your snake venom! 

No.  Drink snake juice!

3 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I have been reading comments on political articles about this.  Multiple republican/conservative posters are adamant that the fraud in this case is all on the democratic side - and get extremely hostile when told otherwise.

That's hilarious.  Cognitive dissonance at its best.  May use that as an example if I look into it, thanks.

2 hours ago, Gertrude said:

My musing was probably sparked by her Dad's response, but I never brought her dad into it once. It is the latter, and I think if I wasn't clear in my original post, it became clear through my follow-ups. But go ahead, keep yelling at me because apparently I'm evil and offensive.

Uh, the entire issue about Kamala's dad's comments inherently has to do with Kamala's dad, it doesn't matter if you "brought [him] into it" or not.  If you don't wanna continue arguing about it, that's cool, but I wasn't "yelling" at you, and I don't think you're evil nor offensive.  YOU'LL KNOW WHEN I YELL!

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Make no mistake, there is a lot of anger in the US within the people who are not doing well, but are not included in the set of groups favored by academia, the media and the elites. Ordinarily, they cannot express this anger as they will be demonized and punished for it, but this incident presents a rare acceptable target.

And incidentally, it's not just Breitbart and Trump supporters who are behind this. Here's a view from the kind of Christian conservative that used to be mainstream a few years ago:

 

Yeah, @Gertrude, these would be the types of posts that make me yell.  Who's being punished and demonized for "expressing their anger?"  Racists and sexists?  Yeah, that's a good thing.  No matter how much you imagine it, or how much the right media wants to pretend it's a thing and whine like little five year olds, there's NO ONE stopping them from expressing legitimate concerns - or even objecting to it.  All there is is your pathetic little bullshit trying to justify racist anger as legitimate qualms instead of calling it what it is.

[Jace, Extat]

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

No.  Drink snake juice!

That's hilarious.  Cognitive dissonance at its best.  May use that as an example if I look into it, thanks.

Uh, the entire issue about Kamala's dad's comments inherently has to do with Kamala's dad, it doesn't matter if you "brought [him] into it" or not.  If you don't wanna continue arguing about it, that's cool, but I wasn't "yelling" at you, and I don't think you're evil nor offensive.  YOU'LL KNOW WHEN I YELL!

Yeah, @Gertrude, these would be the types of posts that make me yell.  Who's being punished and demonized for "expressing their anger?"  Racists and sexists?  Yeah, that's a good thing.  No matter how much you imagine it, or how much the right media wants to pretend it's a thing and whine like little five year olds, there's NO ONE stopping them from expressing legitimate concerns - or even objecting to it.  All there is is your pathetic little bullshit trying to justify racist anger as legitimate qualms instead of calling it what it is.

You sleep too long.

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, Altherion said:

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Make no mistake, there is a lot of anger in the US within the people who are not doing well, but are not included in the set of groups favored by academia, the media and the elites. Ordinarily, they cannot express this anger as they will be demonized and punished for it, but this incident presents a rare acceptable target.

And incidentally, it's not just Breitbart and Trump supporters who are behind this. Here's a view from the kind of Christian conservative that used to be mainstream a few years ago:

 

I’m pretty sure the “you need god to be moral” type of conservative who thinks minority groups just need work harder is still pretty mainstream in the Republican Party.  Also I’m assuming  the person who wrote this article is a Trump supporter. Like I’m 99.9% sure if I google the writer, they’ll turn out to be a Trumpist.

[lokisnow]

3 hours ago, Altherion said:

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Make no mistake, there is a lot of anger in the US within the people who are not doing well, but are not included in the set of groups favored by academia, the media and the elites. Ordinarily, they cannot express this anger as they will be demonized and punished for it, but this incident presents a rare acceptable target.

And incidentally, it's not just Breitbart and Trump supporters who are behind this. Here's a view from the kind of Christian conservative that used to be mainstream a few years ago:

 

Eh, I grew up in the evangelical Christian republican communities, and the fundamental tenet is that they are victims, that they are oppressed and that the world will end because of how mean everyone is to them.

Performative (false) victimhood is an integral part of that society’s power structures, not surprising that they project the same structures onto statements of lived experiences of discrimination and assume the statement is about accruing leverage, influence or power.

 

***

Unrelated, but we were talking about HSR last thread, and I was somewhat wrong about Tejon, I went digging through the hsr website for the old baseline routes, and found an engineeeing study I hadn’t seen before that they commissioned, the crossing is more plausible than I had given credence to, but even the most cost constrained routes would still run into some serious environmental issues in terms of impinging in reservoir flood plains as well as the unresolved political problems of routing around the city of Santa Clarita. So it would still be significantly difficult, but it is possible to cross both fault zones at grade through Tejon.

http://www.hsr.ca.gov/docs/programs/eir-eis/statewide_techrpt_EvalQuntmSysFin.pdf

[Darth Richard II]

Did someone actually just pull out the people are racist against racists card?