Angel Eyes Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 If she was trying to conceal that Joffrey was a bastard born of incest, I think she’s a real idiot with this one; the last Prince named Joffrey was suspected of being a bastard, as this one was. Did she trust that Robert wouldn’t open a book and read about the Strong Princes of Driftmark? Was she trolling Robert with naming him Joffrey, to rub it in his face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 41 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: If she was trying to conceal that Joffrey was a bastard born of incest, I think she’s a real idiot with this one; the last Prince named Joffrey was suspected of being a bastard, as this one was. Did she trust that Robert wouldn’t open a book and read about the Strong Princes of Driftmark? Was she trolling Robert with naming him Joffrey, to rub it in his face? One assumes neither Cersei Lannister nor Robert Baratheon remember the name of Joffrey Velaryon. He is an obscure boy from history. Joffrey is a royal name in the West, though. The first Andal King of the Rock was Joffrey Lydden who then took the name of Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Map Guy Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 There is a Joffrey Arryn, a former Lord of the Eyrie. Perhaps Cersei/Robert named their first son Joffrey to appease Jon Arryn. I have a funny reason why GRRM may have named the royal bastard children "Joffrey", "Myrcella" & "Tommen": Our 3rd USA President, Thomas Jefferson in Monticello, VA and the rumors of his royal bastard children there LOL or Perhaps GRRM has an extremely rare USA $2 bill in his collection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_two-dollar_bill#/media/File:US-$2-LT-1928-Fr.1501.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, The Map Guy said: There is a Joffrey Arryn, a former Lord of the Eyrie. Perhaps Cersei/Robert named their first son Joffrey to appease Jon Arryn. I have a funny reason why GRRM may have named the royal bastard children "Joffrey", "Myrcella" & "Tommen": Our 3rd USA President, Thomas Jefferson in Monticello, VA and the rumors of his royal bastard children there LOL or Perhaps GRRM has an extremely rare USA $2 bill in his collection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_two-dollar_bill#/media/File:US-$2-LT-1928-Fr.1501.jpg This is an awesome find. GRRM has compared RL to Jefferson and Hemings in that it was very complicated and we likely will never know quite what happened. There's a lot of RL in Jefferson's situation with his wife Martha Wayles Skelton. In ten years, she had six children but 4 of them died when very young and Martha weakened with each birth until the last birth killed her. Only 1 of the 6 children by Martha would survive Jefferson. On her death bed after giving birth, she made Jefferson promise her to never remarry as she had had an awful time with step parents herself and didn't want that for her children. Jefferson burned all of their letters after she died so little is known about them beyond that they seemed genuinely happy. Sally Hemings and Martha Wayles Skelton were half-sisters with the same father and Jefferson never did remarry. Thomas Jefferson: An Intimate History by Fawn Brodie (published before the DNA proof) and The Hemingses of Monticello by Annette Gordon-Reed are good places to start if you want to read further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitimate_Bastard Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Maybe after Joffrey Doggett? He was a Westerman and Grand Captain of the Warriors Sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Uncle P Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Spoiler 2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: If she was trying to conceal that Joffrey was a bastard born of incest, I think she’s a real idiot with this one; the last Prince named Joffrey was suspected of being a bastard, as this one was. Joffrey Velaryon was the third son of Rhaenyra and had no real role in the Dance, unlike Jace and Luke. I'm sure Bob and Cersei had studied the Dance in history as kids, but I doubt they'd remember the youngest strong boy. IRL I cringed when I read TPATQ first and read another Prince Joffrey of questionable heritage. Thought it was too much of a forced nod by Martin to the ASOIAF era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Maybe it's after Geoffrey of Monmouth, author of "The History of the Kings of Britain", "Prophecies of Merlin" and "Life of Merlin". Could be that Jon, the promised prince, is GRRM's parallel to Geoffrey's King Arthur; Bloodraven is a parallel to Merlin; Shiera Seastar/Quaithe/The Three-eyed Crow is a parallel to Morgana le Fay, water fairy Nimue, and Welsh deity queen of phantoms and battle crow Morrigan; so if GRRM is using those legendary characters as a basis for his story, then he could have used name Joffrey (fairly similar to Geoffrey, but not too obvious, same as Mormont from Monmouth) as a "tribute" to author of those Arthurian legends. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said: Maybe after Joffrey Doggett? He was a Westerman and Grand Captain of the Warriors Sons. and what a Godly child he turned out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Map Guy Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Lollygag said: This is an awesome find. GRRM has compared RL to Jefferson and Hemings in that it was very complicated and we likely will never know quite what happened. There's a lot of RL in Jefferson's situation with his wife Martha Wayles Skelton. In ten years, she had six children but 4 of them died when very young and Martha weakened with each birth until the last birth killed her. Only 1 of the 6 children by Martha would survive Jefferson. On her death bed after giving birth, she made Jefferson promise her to never remarry as she had had an awful time with step parents herself and didn't want that for her children. Jefferson burned all of their letters after she died so little is known about them beyond that they seemed genuinely happy. Sally Hemings and Martha Wayles Skelton were half-sisters with the same father and Jefferson never did remarry. Thomas Jefferson: An Intimate History by Fawn Brodie (published before the DNA proof) and The Hemingses of Monticello by Annette Gordon-Reed are good places to start if you want to read further. Thanks. I only stumbled on this after trying to confirm the non-fictional origins of "Jon" in "Jon Snow." GRRM's mind is so silly. Anyways....Monticello....so scandalous....like a King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 12 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: If she was trying to conceal that Joffrey was a bastard born of incest, I think she’s a real idiot with this one; the last Prince named Joffrey was suspected of being a bastard, as this one was. Did she trust that Robert wouldn’t open a book and read about the Strong Princes of Driftmark? Was she trolling Robert with naming him Joffrey, to rub it in his face? King Joffrey Lannister . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat92 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 18 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Did she trust that Robert wouldn’t open a book and read about the Strong Princes of Driftmark? The chances of Robert opening anything that didn't have alcohol inside it were very slim. I would say it's more related to the fact that George wanted to choose a name that was associated to another bastard in history, as a lot of the clues of what's happening in ASOIAF are hidden in the past. However, it would be right up Cersei's alley to choose the name of a bastard out of spite, but likely Robert wouldn't have been smart enough to realise. Especially Joffrey Velaryon, who's heritage was questioned in court simply based on hair colour. If so, she probably looked for Targaryen names anyway based on her wanting to wed Rhaegar IIRC. She was probably very familiar with the names of past Targaryens from a young age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 On 2/22/2019 at 9:08 PM, Megorova said: Maybe it's after Geoffrey of Monmouth, author of "The History of the Kings of Britain", "Prophecies of Merlin" and "Life of Merlin". Could be that Jon, the promised prince, is GRRM's parallel to Geoffrey's King Arthur; Bloodraven is a parallel to Merlin; Shiera Seastar/Quaithe/The Three-eyed Crow is a parallel to Morgana le Fay, water fairy Nimue, and Welsh deity queen of phantoms and battle crow Morrigan; so if GRRM is using those legendary characters as a basis for his story, then he could have used name Joffrey (fairly similar to Geoffrey, but not too obvious, same as Mormont from Monmouth) as a "tribute" to author of those Arthurian legends. Or not. Carnwennan, Lightbringer, Dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus Rex Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I think it was because GRRM once knew a kid named Joffrey who he really did not like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 On 2/22/2019 at 9:35 AM, Angel Eyes said: If she was trying to conceal that Joffrey was a bastard born of incest, I think she’s a real idiot with this one; the last Prince named Joffrey was suspected of being a bastard, as this one was. Did she trust that Robert wouldn’t open a book and read about the Strong Princes of Driftmark? Was she trolling Robert with naming him Joffrey, to rub it in his face? The plot required it. And GRRM likes the name/symbol together because he has a character named Joffri Lyon he used in past stories. Sorry to bring in extra info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wadsworth Longfellow Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Because Jamie Jr. would have been too obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Worth pointing out Joffrey Velaryon probably got his name after Joffrey Baratheon too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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