House of the Undying. The Three Mounts

[The Commentator]

Rhaegar read dusty scrolls and jumped to conclusions.  Wrong conclusions.  Viserys never so much received his own vision.  What we saw in the House Of The Undying is specific for Daenerys.  These prophecies are nearly all fulfilled by now.  It is fair to assume they are accurate.

[Quoth the raven,]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:10 AM, Enuma Elish said:

This is a clarification of this.

Some interpret this to mean husbands.  I do not think so.  She already has Hizdarh.  He is husband number 2 and doesn't fit in this prophecy.  I take the meaning of "mount" as the means to an end.  Sort of like a tool.  The mounts are what's important and not the men.  She will mercy kill these three men.  Mount is a vehicle and a means to gaining something.  Bride of fire means she will light three fires.  For cremation and for execution.  

The first mount is the spirited silver horse.  

This is the Princess Daenerys learning confidence and believing in herself.  The death of Khal Drogo opened the doors.  She inherited part of his khalasar.

The second mount will be the Iron Victory and with it the Iron Fleet.  Victarion will die in Meereen and Daenerys will give his body to the fire.  Grey lips smiling sadly can only be a Greyjoy.   He will die and she will take control of the Iron Fleet.  The fleet will be her vehicle to wherever she chooses to go.  It might be both execution and cremation if he tries to steal a dragon.  

The third mount will be Ghost.  

The blue flower can apply equally to Mance Rayder and Jon Snow.  I believe it refers to Jon in this vision.  Jon's attachment to the Starks caused him to make big mistakes at the wall and hence the crack.  The flower caused a crack in the wall and thereby weakening it.  That crack will grow.  It grew because Jon's sweetness for Arya caused him to betray the NW.  Jon's spirit will be contained in the direwolf and he will lead Daenerys to the wall so she can help fight the Others.  Jon's human body will die and she will give it to the fire.  

The third fire makes even more sense if Jon is part Targaryen.  It's a proper funeral to burn him rather than leaving him frozen in the ice.  It would be an act of kindness and respect for Dany to cremate Jon's corpse.

[chrisdaw]

They're her mounts in the sense that they second life a dragon and she rides that dragon.

Love Drogo, second lifed Drogon. Thus she mounts him when she rides Drogon and their child was the sacrifice that made Drogon.

Dread Euron, who will also second life Drogon and turn him into/become the Stone Beast. She will probably ride that too until it eventually turns away from her. It will not breathe fire and generally fuck Westeros up.

Bed Jon. The man she will bed in the belief she will be able to fix Drogon, that is turning him from the Stone Beast back into a fire breathing dragon, if she gets pregnant by him and sacrifices their child.

[Rose of Red Lake]

4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Bed Jon. The man she will bed in the belief she will be able to fix Drogon, that is turning him from the Stone Beast back into a fire breathing dragon, if she gets pregnant by him and sacrifices their child.

This sounds like way way too much magic. This is still a low-magic story. 

You dont even need that much magic to have the heart in conflict. She could just attempt to conquer Winterfell and then Jon is forced to fight her and possibly kill his own family member. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

How does one get blue flower in a chink of ice = Jon as dead inside of Ghost?

"You MUST ride." So Dany rides Ghost around, when no Stark has done anything that cheesy?

Is Dany a Stark? A child of the forest? 

 

Mounts could relate to the stallion who mounts the world.

So her last mount could be the world. Probably a metaphor for her burning it down.

 

[chrisdaw]

2 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

This sounds like way way too much magic. This is still a low-magic story. 

You dont even need that much magic to have the heart in conflict. She could just attempt to conquer Winterfell and then Jon is forced to fight her and possibly kill his own family member. 

No it is exactly the amount of magic he needs to realise the question of one (bastard) child against the whole of the realm which is where the series has been angling from for its entirety. Rhaegar had Jon for the purpose of sacrificing to wake the dragon to save the world, in contrast Ned at every turn made every sacrifice to save the lives of innocent children, including saving Jon himself and the Lannister children which lead directly to Ned's own death.

It is Jon's and Dany's arc. Craster, the baby swap and now Stannis has brought the question to Jon's doorstep. Rhaego, did she know the cost? If she looks back she is lost. Hazzea. The cost of the power of dragons is the sacrifice of children, not just symbolically, literally. The greatest power comes at the expense of the greatest sacrifice, one's own child.

Ice vs fire, the Stark way or the Targ way, Ned's way or Rhaegar's way. Jon and Dany are not love interests, they are to fall on either side of this question.

[Rose of Red Lake]

53 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

No it is exactly the amount of magic he needs to realise the question of one (bastard) child against the whole of the realm which is where the series has been angling from for its entirety. Rhaegar had Jon for the purpose of sacrificing to wake the dragon to save the world, in contrast Ned at every turn made every sacrifice to save the lives of innocent children, including saving Jon himself and the Lannister children which lead directly to Ned's own death.

The author could can get at that theme about the value of innocent life by having Dany face the conqueror's choice which has been her theme from the beginning. 

Whether she'll conquer and kill children to win the throne or save lives and turn away from her dream.

She just has to be Aegon I. Not Stannis on crack, having sex with Jon so she can have a child and then kill it to resurrect her stupid dragon. I mean what even is that?

I doubt we'd see her repeat Stannis' storyline anyway. Again its more about her deciding if she's willing to kill innocent people to get what she wants, not whether she's willing to sacrifice innocent lives to save people. That's not her story, that's Stannis'.

Rhaegar wasn't advocating the killing of kids. Ned would be the foil to Robert and Tywin in that chain of decisions, don't really see how he would be the foil to Rhaegar too. 

[chrisdaw]

6 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Ned would be the foil to Robert and Tywin in that chain of decisions, don't really see how he would be the foil to Rhaegar too. 

I just told you precisely how.

[Rose of Red Lake]

7 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

I just told you precisely how.

Your ideas aren't coming across very well. What I got from that was, Rhaegar was going to sacrifice Jon while Ned saved Jon? Or something?

[chrisdaw]

31 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Your ideas aren't coming across very well. What I got from that was, Rhaegar was going to sacrifice Jon while Ned saved Jon? Or something?

Ned obviously saved Jon. Rhaegar had Jon with at minimum the expectation he would die and a dragon would come from it, that I explain here.

Dany is going to follow Stannis's storyline but with some differences. The most important of which is when she comes to sacrifice her unborn/newborn child she and the reader will believe it will work. The question that needs answering is if this is a justifiable sacrifice if it is the only way to save the world? And GRRM can not ask that question through Stannis because no-one believes he's going to get a fire breathing dragon out of burning Shireen and go on to save the world. But everyone will believe it with Dany.

Part of the point of writing fantasy is that complex questions such as what actions are permissible in the service of a greater good can be boiled down to a simple bastard child vs the realm. Outside of fantasy it must remain a theoretical question, whereas in fantasy it can be made literal.

[The Commentator]

15 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The third fire makes even more sense if Jon is part Targaryen.  It's a proper funeral to burn him rather than leaving him frozen in the ice.  It would be an act of kindness and respect for Dany to cremate Jon's corpse.

I don’t think he is.  The burning is still an appropriate send off though.  Especially if he’s been wighted.  

[Rose of Red Lake]

8 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Dany is going to follow Stannis's storyline but with some differences. The most important of which is when she comes to sacrifice her unborn/newborn child she and the reader will believe it will work. The question that needs answering is if this is a justifiable sacrifice if it is the only way to save the world? And GRRM can not ask that question through Stannis because no-one believes he's going to get a fire breathing dragon out of burning Shireen and go on to save the world. But everyone will believe it with Dany.

Yeah you're talking about the trolley dilemma in philosophy/ethics.

I guess it depends on how much GRRM is entertaining that dilemma.

Is he seriously wanting people to consider it?

Or would he feel like its a false dilemma and not push it into the story again?

Hoping for the latter because I think this dilemma isnt even the point, it is a false choice. Because helping people doesn't have to be that hard. Sometimes it can be very easy; it only becomes difficult when people have other priorities. Like say...giving up a quest for a throne. Should be easy for everyone to do but for someone like Dany it would be very hard.

ETA: The idea that saving the world must come with some horrible painful sacrifice is something that I hope GRRM critiques in the story, because that's not true, IRL or in fantasy. Sam Gamgee didnt have to kill a child to be the true hero who helped destroy the ring. He saved the world by being kind to others. And Frodo took on a self-sacrifice, not one where someone external to himself was involved.

[Wm Portnoy]

23 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The third fire makes even more sense if Jon is part Targaryen.  It's a proper funeral to burn him rather than leaving him frozen in the ice.  It would be an act of kindness and respect for Dany to cremate Jon's corpse.

 He might get turned to wight by the Others and then he will have to be burned.  Jon is already guilty of treason.  He doesn't have to be Targaryen to get the flame broiled funeral.

[Wm Portnoy]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:04 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon will die and his body will become a wight.  His mind will not perish because he's a warg.  Jon's spirit will reside in Ghost. 

The mounts are symbols of these three dead men.  The horse is the heart and soul of the Dothraki.  Drogo symbolically gave Dany the heart of his people with the gift of the silver mare.  Vic will likewise give Daenerys the Ironborn with the Iron Fleet.  Jon will safely live his second life in Ghost.  Daenerys will continue her pattern of burning the dead and burn Jon's wighted body.   The direwolf is the symbol of the ancient kings of the north.  Daenerys will win the Starks and Free Folk to her side through Ghost.  Jon-Ghost will pave the way to make this happen. 

The mounts are gifts from Drogo, Vic, and Jon.  The mounts connect Dany to these people, Dothraki, Ironborn, and the Free Folk.  The Dothraki will fight slavery in Essos, the Ironborn that was Vic's will provide transportation.  The Free Folk will be the people of the north and survivors of the long night.  Basically three peoples whose cooperation she will need. 

The horse opened the hearts of the Dothraki to Daenerys.  Victarion will open the hearts of the Ironborn to her.  The blue rose will open the hearts of the northmen to Daenerys.  Drogo died.  Victarion and Jon will also die.  

[Pontius Pilate]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:10 AM, Enuma Elish said:

This is a clarification of this.

Some interpret this to mean husbands.  I do not think so.  She already has Hizdarh.  He is husband number 2 and doesn't fit in this prophecy.  I take the meaning of "mount" as the means to an end.  Sort of like a tool.  The mounts are what's important and not the men.  She will mercy kill these three men.  Mount is a vehicle and a means to gaining something.  Bride of fire means she will light three fires.  For cremation and for execution.  

The first mount is the spirited silver horse.  

This is the Princess Daenerys learning confidence and believing in herself.  The death of Khal Drogo opened the doors.  She inherited part of his khalasar.

The second mount will be the Iron Victory and with it the Iron Fleet.  Victarion will die in Meereen and Daenerys will give his body to the fire.  Grey lips smiling sadly can only be a Greyjoy.   He will die and she will take control of the Iron Fleet.  The fleet will be her vehicle to wherever she chooses to go.  It might be both execution and cremation if he tries to steal a dragon.  

The third mount will be Ghost.  

The blue flower can apply equally to Mance Rayder and Jon Snow.  I believe it refers to Jon in this vision.  Jon's attachment to the Starks caused him to make big mistakes at the wall and hence the crack.  The flower caused a crack in the wall and thereby weakening it.  That crack will grow.  It grew because Jon's sweetness for Arya caused him to betray the NW.  Jon's spirit will be contained in the direwolf and he will lead Daenerys to the wall so she can help fight the Others.  Jon's human body will die and she will give it to the fire.  

I like it.  

[Platypus Rex]

No, "mount" is not a sex pun.  That would be sad and weak.  A mount is a beast that you ride, for transportation.  Such as a horse, a dragon, or a woolly mammoth.

No, a ship is not a mount.  

My guess as to her three mounts

1) Silver

2) Drogon

3) Nymeria.

[Roswell]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:10 AM, Enuma Elish said:

This is a clarification of this.

Some interpret this to mean husbands.  I do not think so.  She already has Hizdarh.  He is husband number 2 and doesn't fit in this prophecy.  I take the meaning of "mount" as the means to an end.  Sort of like a tool.  The mounts are what's important and not the men.  She will mercy kill these three men.  Mount is a vehicle and a means to gaining something.  Bride of fire means she will light three fires.  For cremation and for execution.  

The first mount is the spirited silver horse.  

This is the Princess Daenerys learning confidence and believing in herself.  The death of Khal Drogo opened the doors.  She inherited part of his khalasar.

The second mount will be the Iron Victory and with it the Iron Fleet.  Victarion will die in Meereen and Daenerys will give his body to the fire.  Grey lips smiling sadly can only be a Greyjoy.   He will die and she will take control of the Iron Fleet.  The fleet will be her vehicle to wherever she chooses to go.  It might be both execution and cremation if he tries to steal a dragon.  

The third mount will be Ghost.  

The blue flower can apply equally to Mance Rayder and Jon Snow.  I believe it refers to Jon in this vision.  Jon's attachment to the Starks caused him to make big mistakes at the wall and hence the crack.  The flower caused a crack in the wall and thereby weakening it.  That crack will grow.  It grew because Jon's sweetness for Arya caused him to betray the NW.  Jon's spirit will be contained in the direwolf and he will lead Daenerys to the wall so she can help fight the Others.  Jon's human body will die and she will give it to the fire.  

Mounting someone is like taking them from behind.  It's a dominant position like what the stallion would have done if the prophecy from the DK had come to fruition in the manner of their interpretation.  Daenerys mounted part of Drogo's khalasar and made herself the leader.  She took over from Drogo.  Civil war will break out among the Dothraki before she unites all of the khalasars.

The Ironborn will go through their own civil war and the ones on Victarion's fleet will side with Daenerys.  The Iron Fleet will take her armies to Westeros and beyond.  Wherever they wish to go.  The blue flower is Jon Snow.  Civil war has already broken out at the wall.  Some of the wildlings will side with and support Daenerys the Dragon.  

The Ironborn and the Wildlings are on a similar path.  We know some of the wildlings were taken east to slavery.  The Iron Fleet is heading east.  Daenerys is the future of the story.  People are heading to the east.  Tyrion, Barristan, Marwyn, Victarion.  I foresee some of the enslaved wildlings will survive and meet the Dragon Queen.  

[Texas Hold Em]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:10 AM, Enuma Elish said:

This is a clarification of this.

Some interpret this to mean husbands.  I do not think so.  She already has Hizdarh.  He is husband number 2 and doesn't fit in this prophecy.  I take the meaning of "mount" as the means to an end.  Sort of like a tool.  The mounts are what's important and not the men.  She will mercy kill these three men.  Mount is a vehicle and a means to gaining something.  Bride of fire means she will light three fires.  For cremation and for execution.  

The first mount is the spirited silver horse.  

This is the Princess Daenerys learning confidence and believing in herself.  The death of Khal Drogo opened the doors.  She inherited part of his khalasar.

The second mount will be the Iron Victory and with it the Iron Fleet.  Victarion will die in Meereen and Daenerys will give his body to the fire.  Grey lips smiling sadly can only be a Greyjoy.   He will die and she will take control of the Iron Fleet.  The fleet will be her vehicle to wherever she chooses to go.  It might be both execution and cremation if he tries to steal a dragon.  

The third mount will be Ghost.  

The blue flower can apply equally to Mance Rayder and Jon Snow.  I believe it refers to Jon in this vision.  Jon's attachment to the Starks caused him to make big mistakes at the wall and hence the crack.  The flower caused a crack in the wall and thereby weakening it.  That crack will grow.  It grew because Jon's sweetness for Arya caused him to betray the NW.  Jon's spirit will be contained in the direwolf and he will lead Daenerys to the wall so she can help fight the Others.  Jon's human body will die and she will give it to the fire.  

Excellent call on Hizdahr.  He is husband #2 already.  The mounts do not refer to husbands.  I love the mounts being the horse, the Iron Fleet, and the direwolf.  The direwolf in this case is more likely to be Nymeria.  Arya will die, the cause of the blue flower's treason and death, and Nymeria will become Dany's.  

[Texas Hold Em]

On 2/25/2019 at 2:47 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

This is tightly correlated with the three fires.  Three purposes are achieved with the fires:  funeral for the boys, execution of a traitor, and some sort of miracle.  Chink in the wall is akin to a chink in an armor.  It's a weak spot.  Jon created a weak spot on the wall.  Some have written of the sweet smell of death.  Like an overripe fruit having a sweet smell.  The meaning to me is the avoidance of death and decay.  Jon's soul will continue to live in his wolf despite the death of his body.  Thus the flower remains fresh.  Victarion and Jon (body only) will be burned.  I don't think Ghost will be ridden but he is the bridge between Daenerys and Bran.  Ghost is the key to the Starks.  Ghost will be the leader of the direwolf Stark pack by the time Daenerys arrives in Westeros.      

Jon broke the watch.  The wildlings who where brought in to help defend the wall is now on the warpath against the Boltons.  The watch is no longer whole.  The wall has a crack.  

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

On 2/25/2019 at 11:33 AM, Rose of Red Lake said:

I just think its describing her journey toward a bigger weapon of war. 

-Horse (bed)

-Ship (dread)

-Dragon (love)

Mounts as husbands is a really cringe interpretation; I'd be embarrassed for the author and Dany if that was the case. Dany is on the path to loving only one thing: her dragons.

She already has Drogon.  The mounts are gifts from the men.  The third signifies the final death of Jon Snow as a human and Daenerys Targaryen will inherit those loyal to him.