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House of the Undying. The Three Mounts

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Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.  A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.  A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire.

This is a clarification of this.

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Three mounts must you ride ... one to bed and one to dread and one to love ...

Some interpret this to mean husbands.  I do not think so.  She already has Hizdarh.  He is husband number 2 and doesn't fit in this prophecy.  I take the meaning of "mount" as the means to an end.  Sort of like a tool.  The mounts are what's important and not the men.  She will mercy kill these three men.  Mount is a vehicle and a means to gaining something.  Bride of fire means she will light three fires.  For cremation and for execution.  

The first mount is the spirited silver horse.  

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The silver horse leapt the flames as if she had wings.  "Tell Khal Drogo that he has given me the wind."

This is the Princess Daenerys learning confidence and believing in herself.  The death of Khal Drogo opened the doors.  She inherited part of his khalasar.

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And after them came her handmaidens, and then the others, all the Dothraki, men and women and children, and Dany had only to look at their eyes to know that they were hers now, today and tomorrow and forever, hers as they had never been Drogo's.

 

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And for the first time in hours, she forgot to be afraid.  Or perhaps it was for the first time ever.

The second mount will be the Iron Victory and with it the Iron Fleet.  Victarion will die in Meereen and Daenerys will give his body to the fire.  Grey lips smiling sadly can only be a Greyjoy.   He will die and she will take control of the Iron Fleet.  The fleet will be her vehicle to wherever she chooses to go.  It might be both execution and cremation if he tries to steal a dragon.  

The third mount will be Ghost.  

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A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness

The blue flower can apply equally to Mance Rayder and Jon Snow.  I believe it refers to Jon in this vision.  Jon's attachment to the Starks caused him to make big mistakes at the wall and hence the crack.  The flower caused a crack in the wall and thereby weakening it.  That crack will grow.  It grew because Jon's sweetness for Arya caused him to betray the NW.  Jon's spirit will be contained in the direwolf and he will lead Daenerys to the wall so she can help fight the Others.  Jon's human body will die and she will give it to the fire.  

Edited by Enuma Elish

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4 hours ago, Enuma Elish said:

This is a clarification of this.

yes, few realize that. The visions are the "explanations"

 

4 hours ago, Enuma Elish said:

The first mount is the spirited silver horse.  

Yes. The mount that took her to bed

 

4 hours ago, Enuma Elish said:

 

The second mount will be the Iron Victory and with it the Iron Fleet.  Victarion will die in Meereen and Daenerys will give his body to the fire.  Grey lips smiling sadly can only be a Greyjoy.   He will die and she will take control of the Iron Fleet.  The fleet will be her vehicle to wherever she chooses to go.  It might be both execution and cremation if he tries to steal a dragon.  

No, the second mount is Drogon and Dany is taking him to war.

 

4 hours ago, Enuma Elish said:

The third mount will be Ghost.  

The blue flower can apply equally to Mance Rayder and Jon Snow.  I believe it refers to Jon in this vision.  Jon's attachment to the Starks caused him to make big mistakes at the wall and hence the crack.  The flower caused a crack in the wall and thereby weakening it.  That crack will grow.  It grew because Jon's sweetness for Arya caused him to betray the NW.  Jon's spirit will be contained in the direwolf and he will lead Daenerys to the wall so she can help fight the Others.  Jon's human body will die and she will give it to the fire.   

eh, no

the mount is of course Jon (where does that Mance interpretation come from?). Probably is through Jon that Dany rediscovers love, but of course how, etc. is unclear.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Enuma Elish said:

This is a clarification of this.

Some interpret this to mean husbands.  I do not think so.  She already has Hizdarh.  He is husband number 2 and doesn't fit in this prophecy.  I take the meaning of "mount" as the means to an end.  Sort of like a tool.  The mounts are what's important and not the men.  She will mercy kill these three men.  Mount is a vehicle and a means to gaining something.  Bride of fire means she will light three fires.  For cremation and for execution.  

The first mount is the spirited silver horse.  

This is the Princess Daenerys learning confidence and believing in herself.  The death of Khal Drogo opened the doors.  She inherited part of his khalasar.

The second mount will be the Iron Victory and with it the Iron Fleet.  Victarion will die in Meereen and Daenerys will give his body to the fire.  Grey lips smiling sadly can only be a Greyjoy.   He will die and she will take control of the Iron Fleet.  The fleet will be her vehicle to wherever she chooses to go.  It might be both execution and cremation if he tries to steal a dragon.  

The third mount will be Ghost.  

The blue flower can apply equally to Mance Rayder and Jon Snow.  I believe it refers to Jon in this vision.  Jon's attachment to the Starks caused him to make big mistakes at the wall and hence the crack.  The flower caused a crack in the wall and thereby weakening it.  That crack will grow.  It grew because Jon's sweetness for Arya caused him to betray the NW.  Jon's spirit will be contained in the direwolf and he will lead Daenerys to the wall so she can help fight the Others.  Jon's human body will die and she will give it to the fire.  

The blue flower creating a chink in the wall is a good interpretation.  Either Mance or Jon, or both, weakened the wall.  

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It might be even more complicated - the mounts could be means of transport and connected to men who play some crucial role in her life. Hizdahr is her husband in only a name, he means nothing to her. Daario is her lover bu unless he betrays her or is executed and his death prompts her to do something terrible (hence a mount to dread would be Drogon upon her return to Meereen), he will not be crucial for her fate, either. There are too many variables, too many men who might become important, to make any safe bets.

However, as for the chink in the Wall, I don't think you have the symbolics right: a plant doesn't cause a chink in the wall. The chink must already be there to enable the plant to take hold. Plants taking hold on places that are not supposed to allow life thrive usually symbolize the triumph of life and survival. Also, the blue flower in the vision spreads sweet scent, which is again a positive image.

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The last three of each (Mount, Fire & Betrayal) is "to love" so the final mount should be tied up with a fire and a betrayal. 

Mount 3 could be the great stallion taking her to the Dothraki afterlife to be with Drogo. This would be after Dany sacrifices herself (by betraying Jon) making her Jon's Nissa Nissa to ignite Lightbringer. 

Mount 2 is definitely Drogon though. Each Mount seems to come to her at a period of transition, after Silver she begins to become more confident and less downtrodden and embraces her marriage to Drogo. After Drogon she casts off the restrictions of ruling Meereen and stops being bogged down in the politics. Silver comes as she is being married (to bed), and Drogo comes when she is in Peril in the pits of Meereen (to dread).

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I just think its describing her journey toward a bigger weapon of war. 

-Horse (bed)

-Ship (dread)

-Dragon (love)

Mounts as husbands is a really cringe interpretation; I'd be embarrassed for the author and Dany if that was the case. Dany is on the path to loving only one thing: her dragons.

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On "wall of ice" - I dont think the wall of ice is the Wall. That's too obvious in a prophecy full of twists, metaphors, and misdirects.

GRRM directly stole the Oracle at Delphi's twist that the wooden wall saving Athens was actually a wall of ships. He uses it in Arya's chapter:

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“The city has no walls. But when she said as much to Denyo, he laughed at her. “Our walls are made of wood and painted purple,” he told her. “Our galleys [ships] are our walls. We need no other.” - Arya, AFFC

Similar to the wall being ships, as protection, what is the best protection the North has against invaders? To the North it's the wall, but to the south, it's Winter itself, or the place where "winter falls" on people:

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“The Others,” Old Nan agreed. “Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. ”

Winterfell. And after this prophecy is read to Dany, we learn in the next Jon chapter that there is indeed a blue rose associated with Winterfell. In the present story Baelish stole the blue rose that the prophecy is likely referring to: Sansa.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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12 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I just think its describing her journey toward a bigger weapon of war. 

-Horse (bed)

-Ship (dread)

-Dragon (love)

Mounts as husbands is a really cringe interpretation; I'd be embarrassed for the author and Dany if that was the case. Dany is on the path to loving only one thing: her dragons.

I agree it's cringeworthy to think that each mount is someone she will bed when that is only clear in the first 'betrayal' which is more specific in that regard.  The second treason for gold could involve the Golden Company in some way.     But I do think the last betrayal is about dragon(s): to love, to love and for love.  I'm not altogether clear whether Dany is the betrayed or the betrayer in each case. 

Edited by LynnS

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12 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm not altogether clear whether Dany is the betrayed or the betrayer in each case. 

Yeah, I agree, the love parts probably refer to dragons in some way.

The prophecy mentions treasons, which is a specific type of betrayal against a sovereign. So my guess is that it has to be treason done by the people who swore or knelt to her, so she would be the betrayed.

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18 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I just think its describing her journey toward a bigger weapon of war. 

-Horse (bed)

-Ship (dread)

-Dragon (love)

Mounts as husbands is a really cringe interpretation; I'd be embarrassed for the author and Dany if that was the case. Dany is on the path to loving only one thing: her dragons.

I agree.

I'm not worried about GRRM doing this because he has Cersei complain about exactly this sort of double-standard all of the time so he's very aware of it. 

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Jon will die and his body will become a wight.  His mind will not perish because he's a warg.  Jon's spirit will reside in Ghost. 

The mounts are symbols of these three dead men.  The horse is the heart and soul of the Dothraki.  Drogo symbolically gave Dany the heart of his people with the gift of the silver mare.  Vic will likewise give Daenerys the Ironborn with the Iron Fleet.  Jon will safely live his second life in Ghost.  Daenerys will continue her pattern of burning the dead and burn Jon's wighted body.   The direwolf is the symbol of the ancient kings of the north.  Daenerys will win the Starks and Free Folk to her side through Ghost.  Jon-Ghost will pave the way to make this happen. 

The mounts are gifts from Drogo, Vic, and Jon.  The mounts connect Dany to these people, Dothraki, Ironborn, and the Free Folk.  The Dothraki will fight slavery in Essos, the Ironborn that was Vic's will provide transportation.  The Free Folk will be the people of the north and survivors of the long night.  Basically three peoples whose cooperation she will need. 

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The mount Daenerys must ride to bed was her silver, which she rode to her bedding by the darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. The mount Daenerys must ride to dread is her dragon, Drogo, the Black Dread, Balerion, come again. The mount Daenerys must ride to love will be the smoky stallion Daenerys will ride to join her sun-and-stars in the Night Lands. 

The darkling stream is a vision of her bedding following her wedding to Drogo. The corpse standing at the prow of a ship is Daario. The blue flower is Jon Snow. This triplet of visions is followed by "bride of fire." I submit that these three visions represent two men Daenerys has loved: her sun and stars and Daario, but will there be time for her to love Jon? 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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I'm still not sure if I'd write Daario off as being insignificant like Hizdahr. Daenerys seems to be in love with Daario at this point.  Barristan certainly thinks she's in love with him. Daenerys' thoughts point to her already being in love with Daario or being very close to it. I think if Daario dies or betrays her Daenerys will not take it lightly at all.

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2 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Yeah, I agree, the love parts probably refer to dragons in some way.

The prophecy mentions treasons, which is a specific type of betrayal against a sovereign. So my guess is that it has to be treason done by the people who swore or knelt to her, so she would be the betrayed.

And she will roast those people for their betrayal.  The pattern has been established with the execution of MMD and the House of the Undying visions.  Execution, funeral, followed by a valuable reward.  Jon has already committed treason against the Watch and the prophecy did say "three treasons will you know."  Three treasons to be made aware of.  

14 hours ago, Enuma Elish said:

This is a clarification of this.

Some interpret this to mean husbands.  I do not think so.  She already has Hizdarh.  He is husband number 2 and doesn't fit in this prophecy.  I take the meaning of "mount" as the means to an end.  Sort of like a tool.  The mounts are what's important and not the men.  She will mercy kill these three men.  Mount is a vehicle and a means to gaining something.  Bride of fire means she will light three fires.  For cremation and for execution.  

The first mount is the spirited silver horse.  

This is the Princess Daenerys learning confidence and believing in herself.  The death of Khal Drogo opened the doors.  She inherited part of his khalasar.

The second mount will be the Iron Victory and with it the Iron Fleet.  Victarion will die in Meereen and Daenerys will give his body to the fire.  Grey lips smiling sadly can only be a Greyjoy.   He will die and she will take control of the Iron Fleet.  The fleet will be her vehicle to wherever she chooses to go.  It might be both execution and cremation if he tries to steal a dragon.  

The third mount will be Ghost.  

The blue flower can apply equally to Mance Rayder and Jon Snow.  I believe it refers to Jon in this vision.  Jon's attachment to the Starks caused him to make big mistakes at the wall and hence the crack.  The flower caused a crack in the wall and thereby weakening it.  That crack will grow.  It grew because Jon's sweetness for Arya caused him to betray the NW.  Jon's spirit will be contained in the direwolf and he will lead Daenerys to the wall so she can help fight the Others.  Jon's human body will die and she will give it to the fire.  

This is tightly correlated with the three fires.  Three purposes are achieved with the fires:  funeral for the boys, execution of a traitor, and some sort of miracle.  Chink in the wall is akin to a chink in an armor.  It's a weak spot.  Jon created a weak spot on the wall.  Some have written of the sweet smell of death.  Like an overripe fruit having a sweet smell.  The meaning to me is the avoidance of death and decay.  Jon's soul will continue to live in his wolf despite the death of his body.  Thus the flower remains fresh.  Victarion and Jon (body only) will be burned.  I don't think Ghost will be ridden but he is the bridge between Daenerys and Bran.  Ghost is the key to the Starks.  Ghost will be the leader of the direwolf Stark pack by the time Daenerys arrives in Westeros.      

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This idea is fun to think about, but we never get anywhere.  There's too many degrees of freedom in solving it. 

I've taken to wondering if this is the core Targaryian prophecy played on repeat for all who can tune in.   Dany receives the prophecy because she's in the house of the undying.  Several Targs, including Dany, had an undying moment.  Might Aerys have heard this prophecy in whispers while dying in the Duskendale prison?  Might Baelor the Blessed have heard this prophecy while dying from the snake venom?  Did Maegor I Targaryen hear this prophecy while dying from his battle wounds as Tyanna resurrected him?  All went mad, and perhaps Dany is not going mad.

Other Targs were thought to have dream/prophecy, even without an undying moment.  Rhaegor, probably.  Daeron Targaryen is drinking himself to death to stop the dreams.  Daemon II Blackfyre dreamed of Dunk, and presumably other moments.  I have a real hard time believing every Targaryian gets fully customized dreams.  It would be exhausting, even for an old God, to come up with new creative symbolic dreams for each Targ to decode on a person by person basis.

So, what if this is an important bit of prophecy meant for the RIGHT targaryian, but there's no way to control it and it just plays on repeat.  What if its meant for Jon?

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The average run of the mill Targaryen doesn't have what can be called Personal Prophecy.  Most people have a very limited role.  The other Targaryens didn't behave like they heard this prophecy.  George Martin was clever when he wrote this scene.  The timing was perfect.  The first part of the triplet has taken place (deaths of Drogo, Viserys).  The part about the slaves calling her Mhysa came true.  It's our clue as to the reliability of these visions.  These visions and the destiny belong to Daenerys.  

 

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History repeats itself in westeros, or echos across time.  The clever part would be to make it seem like some parts were "confirmed" to Dany specifically, while also coming true of the other "woke" Targs throughout history, too. 

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Just now, Idunnohowtochangenames said:

History repeats itself in westeros, or echos across time.  The clever part would be to make it seem like some parts were "confirmed" to Dany specifically, while also coming true of the other "woke" Targs throughout history, too. 

I can't agree with your thoughts here.  They were not clues.  They were evidence.  The parts that have already come to pass are proof.  She is the Child of Three, the Mother of Dragons, the Bride of Fire.  We're 5/7ths of the way through the story.  I don't think anybody else will step into that role.  

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10 hours ago, Idunnohowtochangenames said:

History repeats itself in westeros, or echos across time.  The clever part would be to make it seem like some parts were "confirmed" to Dany specifically, while also coming true of the other "woke" Targs throughout history, too. 

I agree. I think this prophecy may be true for several of our current characters as well as historical characters, as you point out. There is an SSM or received wisdom somewhere (maybe from the editor who works with GRRM?) where we learn that the author provides what seem to be somewhat obvious answers for certain questions (or interpretations of metaphorical passages) but that there are one or two other answers - different but still true - for the same questions. Layers of meaning. These second and third answers are hidden or more subtle and are usually discovered only after multiple rereads of the series.

Some examples of the echoes across time: I have been focused on the Dunk & Egg stories for the past few months. In those stories, Egg (Prince Aegon) rides on Dunk's shoulders, on a mule named Maester that he received from his brother (known to us as Maester Aemon) and on a horse given to him by Rohanne Weber. Maybe it's all coincidence or maybe he will go on to have half a dozen more "mounts," but these could fit with the prophecy. (I suspect horse "mounts" fit the prophecy only if they are named, preferably by the character who rides that mount or someone close to the character.)

I am also persuaded that Tyrion is a hidden Targ. One of his "mounts" might be his ride in the winch cage at Castle Black, up to the top of the Wall. He is carried up the Serpentine Steps by Bronn after his wounds at the Battle of the Blackwater leave him too weak to make the climb on his own. And he eventually rides Pretty Pig, even though he resisted the idea after both Joffrey and Penny encouraged him to do it. (I suspect Penny is Tyrion's "mummer's dragon," by the way. The simplest hint is that "dragon" is a name for a coin and "penny" is also a name for a coin. But there are more hints, including Penny's career as a mummer.)

On 2/25/2019 at 12:10 AM, Enuma Elish said:

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness . . .

I know that most people associate this blue flower with the winter roses Rhaegar gave to Lyanna. I believe that is the obvious answer that the author provides, and it is intentional. However, I have recently been looking at the Blue Fork of the Trident and I think it is very important as the middle ground between the Red and Green Forks. Long ago, members of this forum helped to make the wordplay connections among "wolf - flow - fowl." Rivers flow. (So does blood.) I think the author then plays around with "flower" and "flour" as part of this wordplay - we see both Jon Snow and Osha covered in flour; Hot Pie works with flour; the miller's wife is the mother of Ramsay Snow; Ramsay and Theon kill the sons of a different miller.

In other words, the "blue flow-er" may be a reference to the river known as the Blue Fork. It flows and it is blue. And it may symbolize the middle path between the Red and Green forks where we have seen significant violence and bloodshed.

Another hidden layer may be connected to the sword Widow's Wail. Widow's Wail is the name of a flower that is sometimes purpleish-blue.

The obvious answers aren't wrong, but there are other meaningful interpretations if people care to look for them.

Edited by Seams

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