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maiden of tarth

Would Littlefinger have still “rescued” Sansa

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Rereading the Tyrion and Sansa chapters where they are married. If Tyrion had have consummated his marriage to Sansa, would Littlefinger have continued with his plan to rescue Sansa from Kings Landing? Would her worth have decreased in Littlefingers eyes if she wasn’t a virgin anymore and possibly pregnant with Tyrion’s child? It seems he started his rescue plans before her marriage to Tyrion. Did he plan in the possibility that Tyrion might succumb to pressure from his father and consummate his marriage? 

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16 minutes ago, maiden of tarth said:

Rereading the Tyrion and Sansa chapters where they are married. If Tyrion had have consummated his marriage to Sansa, would Littlefinger have continued with his plan to rescue Sansa from Kings Landing? Would her worth have decreased in Littlefingers eyes if she wasn’t a virgin anymore and possibly pregnant with Tyrion’s child? It seems he started his rescue plans before her marriage to Tyrion. Did he plan in the possibility that Tyrion might succumb to pressure from his father and consummate his marriage? 

A consummated marriage would lower Sansa's usefulness to Littlefinger.  A baby with Tyrion would render Sansa useless to Littlefinger.  He doesn't let his emotions get the better of him.  He will not rescue Sansa.  

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17 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

A consummated marriage would lower Sansa's usefulness to Littlefinger.  A baby with Tyrion would render Sansa useless to Littlefinger.  He doesn't let his emotions get the better of him.  He will not rescue Sansa.  

I second that.

If not completely useless, her value would have been diminished to where the gain no longer outweighed the risk.

I'm sure all of LF's decisions are reached via cost benefit analysis LOL.

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He wanted Catelyn after she was married so I don't see how it would be different with Sansa. Also, if a guy values marriage and virginal purity, he doesn't go into the brothel/pimp business. What makes Sansa valuable beyond the mini-Cat obsession thing which is going on two decades now, is that she's an heir of Winterfell, River Run, Harrenhal, and apparently for some reason I can't figure, the Vale. If she was pregnant with Tyrion's kid? Great! Add Casterly Rock to the list. 

Edited by Lollygag

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1 hour ago, maiden of tarth said:

If Tyrion had have consummated his marriage to Sansa, would Littlefinger have continued with his plan to rescue Sansa from Kings Landing? 

For some reason unknown to me LF had his eye on Sansa for a long time.

Sansa told Dontos, LF's lackey, about the Tyrell offer to wed Sansa to Wyllis.   Dontos told LF.    LF told Lannister.   Sansa was married off to Tyrion.

My thought is LF was not trying to save Sansa; I doubt LF cares whether Sansa's marriage was consummated or not.

During Joffrey's wedding feast LF was waiting off shore for Dontos to bring her to him.

My question would be why is LF so interested in Sansa? LF did kill his wife, Lysa, when Lysa was trying to push Sansa out the moon door.

Now LF is trying to arrange a marriage between his bastard daughter and some Vale lord.

:dunno: why.

Nor do I know what LF is up to.

LF's bastard daughter is Sansa Stark Lannister, a fugitive in hiding wanted in connection of the death of King Joffrey.

What's LF's game? One day I will hopefully find out.

 

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33 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

is that she's an heir of Winterfell, River Run, Harrenhal, and apparently for some reason I can't figure, the Vale. If she was pregnant with Tyrion's kid? Great! Add Casterly Rock to the list. 

If Sansa had a Lannister bun in the oven I think LF would use that to his advantage in some way or another.

The part I grapple with is that Sansa has a bounty on her head for regicide.

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I still think he would have. Given Tyrion's reputation and Tywin being alive at this point (and all that entails), I doubt he expected her to be a virgin by the time of the Purple Wedding.  

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I agree with Petyr Baelish being a user of people and then discards them.  Just ask Dontos.  And Lysa.  And Joffrey.  A consummated marriage is near impossible to annul without the help of the ruling monarch.  Still, he might find some use for Sansa but it won't be glamorous.  Mance Rayder had use for his wildling women.  I'm sure Petyr can find some use for Sansa even if it's just to work at his brothels.  Many a commoner would pay to screw Sansa.  That's got to be worth a copper or two.  You all have to think about his psychology.  Part of his desire is to give the Starks the middle finger.  He does that by taking Sansa and using her for whatever suits him.  It won't be as easy to get her out with Tyrion around but he might find a way to get rid of the Lannisters all.

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Of course.

Petyr tried to kill Tyrion twice, he thought he succeeded the second time

Quote

The deck rocked beneath her feet, and Sansa felt as if the world itself had grown unsteady. "They think Tyrion poisoned Joffrey. Ser Dontos said they seized him."

Littlefinger smiled. "Widowhood will become you, Sansa."

Im not sure if Petyr knew about Sansas virginity, maybe he did, either way Lysa didnt. 

Quote

"Yes, but soon a widow. Be glad the Imp preferred his whores. It would not be fitting for my son to take that dwarf's leavings, but as he never touched you . . . How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?"

Lysa, seemingly, would oppose Sansa carrying a child. Perhaps Lysa would abort it.

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

My question would be why is LF so interested in Sansa?

Shes the key to the North and Riverlands. Win her and you win over half of Westeros

Edited by Hugorfonics

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How do I get over martin's Sansa is a fugitive wanted for regicide idea?

Riverrun is in the hands of Lannister. Lannister controls Westeros.

The boy King Tomnen is supposedly a Baratheon now married to Marg.

Sorry, at this point in the story House Stark is poo poo. House Bolton is the cock of the walk up north.

Let's say LF is speaking true in his claims to Sansa as is exhibited below.

A Feast for Crows - Alayne II      Her eyes widened. "He is not Lady Waynwood's heir. He's Robert's heir. If Robert were to die . . ."     Petyr arched an eyebrow. "When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is only a matter of time.      When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn's bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa . . . Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. That's worth another kiss now, don't you think?"/

Why would the Vale lords support LF's false daughter who claims to be a Stark of WF who is the wife of Tyrion and is accused of regicide  move against the crown?

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7 hours ago, maiden of tarth said:

Rereading the Tyrion and Sansa chapters where they are married. If Tyrion had have consummated his marriage to Sansa, would Littlefinger have continued with his plan to rescue Sansa from Kings Landing? Would her worth have decreased in Littlefingers eyes if she wasn’t a virgin anymore and possibly pregnant with Tyrion’s child? It seems he started his rescue plans before her marriage to Tyrion. Did he plan in the possibility that Tyrion might succumb to pressure from his father and consummate his marriage? 

Petyr's singular goal in life is to fuck every Tully woman. Sans is the last. Besides, Petyr is one of the two behind the scenes manipulators in westeros. The whole of the whole purple wedding and his alliance with Olena are major plot points that the author would not give up. 

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3 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Shes the key to the North and Riverlands. Win her and you win over half of Westeros

Not really.  Edmure is still alive.  Rickon and Bran are still kickin.  The north is big in land area but those lands are nearly worthless.  Sansa won't have much political value to Petyr if she's married to Tyrion. 

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

How do I get over martin's Sansa is a fugitive wanted for regicide idea?

Quote

Magister Illyrio wiped sweet cream from his mouth with the back of a fat hand. "The road to Casterly Rock does not go through Dorne, my little friend. Nor does it run beneath the Wall. Yet there is such a road, I tell you."

"I am an attainted traitor, a regicide, and kinslayer." This talk of roads annoyed him. Does he think this is a game?

"What one king does, another may undo.

 

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Riverrun is in the hands of Lannister. Lannister controls Westeros.

Quote

"A poisoned prize. House Darry is extinguished in the male line, House Tully is not. That muttonhead Ser Ryman puts a noose round Edmure's neck, but will not hang him. And Roslin Frey has a trout growing in her belly. My grandsons will never be secure in Riverrun so long as any Tully heir remains alive."

 

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

The boy King Tomnen is supposedly a Baratheon now married to Marg.

Quote

"Death," he heard himself say, "there will be death, aye. Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King's Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it.

 

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Sorry, at this point in the story House Stark is poo poo. House Bolton is the cock of the walk up north.

Quote

"The wolves will come again," said Jojen solemnly.

"And how would you be knowing, boy?"

"I dreamed it."

 

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Why would the Vale lords support LF's false daughter who claims to be a Stark of WF who is the wife of Tyrion and is accused of regicide  move against the crown?

Quote

"For gold and glory," the dwarf said cheerfully. "Oh, and hate. If you had ever met my sister, you would understand."

 

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18 minutes ago, U. B. Cool said:

Not really.  Edmure is still alive.  Rickon and Bran are still kickin.  The north is big in land area but those lands are nearly worthless.  Sansa won't have much political value to Petyr if she's married to Tyrion. 

Perhaps Harry belives Tyrions dead. Or soon to be. Or perhaps Sansa will annul herself, it doesnt have to be legal, like Ashas marriage, or the climb of succession over her "dead" brothers

Your totally right about the Riverlands though

Edited by Hugorfonics

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If I recall, he was trying to have Tyrion killed by framing him for Joff's murder, so he expected Tyrion to be executed anyway. Women can remarry when their husbands die, that's what the whole Harry plot is for. And as for a child? Nothing some moon tea won't solve.

Sansa is too important to just send her to a brothel or whatever. She's a better heir than fArya because she's actually the eldest Stark now, legitimate, and the most capable. Most importantly, Sansa does what he says and is more useful than any of his other "wards". He expects her to play the game of thrones for him.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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47 minutes ago, U. B. Cool said:

Not really.  Edmure is still alive.  Rickon and Bran are still kickin.  The north is big in land area but those lands are nearly worthless.  Sansa won't have much political value to Petyr if she's married to Tyrion. 

The thread is about LF's perspective on the whole thing, not any given reader's.

Edmure is alive but in the hands of the Lannisters and RR is going to Emmon Frey and Genna Lannister. LF wouldn't be making a wild call in thinking Edmure's not long for this world and he has connections to the Lannisters to make sure that happens if it doesn't happen on its own. Emmon's outright obsessed with killing Edmure. We don't have any reason to think that he knows about Rickon and Bran (but I think he knows Arya's in Braavos through the IB/FM). LF isn't worried about Tyrion's marriage for some reason so he has some plan there. No idea what that might be. 

For a "worthless" land, folks seem to make a big deal out of it even if you don't. The Lannisters and Tyrells sure wanted it and the Tullys thought it was a big enough of a deal to throw their lot in with it. Lysa suggested Sansa marry Robert for it. 

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Interesting quotes @Hugorfonics

Thanks.

I agree with "What one king does, another may undo.

Are you referring to when somebody removes Lannister from the Iron Throne?

That is gonna take a while.

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2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Interesting quotes @Hugorfonics

Thanks.

I agree with "What one king does, another may undo.

Are you referring to when somebody removes Lannister from the Iron Throne?

That is gonna take a while.

No. Rebel kings can change laws just as well as IT kings.

Like Blackfyres using illigal currency or Dany reinstating Selmy as a KG.

Tyrion is called Lord of Castelry Rock by the Second Sons, do you think they care that the IT doesnt?

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6 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

No. Rebel kings can change laws just as well as IT kings.

Is there agreement between you and I that at this point in time in the saga Lannister/Baratheon rule Westeros?

If we are in agreement Sansa Stark Lannister is a fugitive with a bounty on her head.

When someone overthrows the Lannister/Baratheon rule of Westeros then the new king can pardon Sansa.

12 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Like Blackfyres using illigal currency

I got nothing on Blackfyes.

12 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Dany reinstating Selmy as a KG.

Barry is the Dragon Queen's sworn protector now.  Barry's KG title was stripped away by Lannister.

15 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Tyrion is called Lord of Castelry Rock by the Second Sons, do you think they care that the IT doesnt?

Nope.

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35 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Is there agreement between you and I that at this point in time in the saga Lannister/Baratheon rule Westeros?

Uh, no lol. Some of the Stormlands and like half of the North is in open rebellion which isnt as bad as the entire Iron Islands. The rest of Westeros flies Tommens sigil, though I strongly doubt the loyalty of the Riverlands and Dorne. 

And the Tyrells are running KL with minimal support from Lannister and none from Baratheon

35 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

If we are in agreement Sansa Stark Lannister is a fugitive with a bounty on her head.

Agreed. Although she hasnt been found guilty of any crime

35 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

When someone overthrows the Lannister/Baratheon rule of Westeros then the new king can pardon Sansa.

 

Why wait? Aegon hasnt overthrown the government but still made Griff hand and Duck KG. 

37 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I got nothing on Blackfyes.

I was referencing Mystery Knight. Its great if you havent read it, the best Dunk and Egg yet.

39 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Barry is the Dragon Queen's sworn protector now.  Barry's KG title was stripped away by Lannister.

Nope.

Exactly

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