Would Littlefinger have still “rescued” Sansa

[Nevets]

4 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

You're talking about the past. Lady O is concerned about the future. If things go south between the Tyrells and Lannisters, which is likely considering they share a common, ill-defined border that is about 1000 leagues long, then they not only have to worry about Tywin and his 20k-man army from the westerlands, but an additional 20k each from the north, the riverlands, the stormlands, Dorne, and probably the Vale, which isn't likely to defy the Iron Throne, which Tywin also controls.

Lol, Lady Olenna has just murdered the king and she expects the Tyrells and Lannisters to be allies for the foreseeable future? Not exactly the way to build a strong alliance. And this is a state of affairs that the Tyrells will be pleased with? They give up 5000 years of militarily dominance in the realm to a mad warlord who utterly obliterates his rival's lands and houses, but they should be OK as long as they behave themselves? I think you woefully underestimate Tyrell pride.

Loras lost his temper one time: when his lover was unexpectedly and brutally killed on the morning of their certain military victory. A few black eyes, etc., are nothing. Plenty of queens have suffered far worse for their crowns. There is no reason why Margaery couldn't do the same, or to think that she won't be able to continue to seduce Joffrey long enough to get an heir or two out of them. Then they can get rid of him anyway they choose without jeopardizing any of the Tyrells, not even Margaery, and then sit back and reap the rewards bestowed upon their house by the new Queen Regent for the next decade or more -- all the while making sure the new king grows up thinking of himself as a Tyrell, not a Lannister. Please give Lady Olenna a little credit; this is by far the better plan.

I seriously doubt that Tywin is going to go to the trouble of mustering a 100,000 strong army to deal with a piddling little border dispute, especially one not prominently mentioned.  and unless and until Tyrion is able to consolidate power in the North, which could take awhile, I doubt he will get anything from there.   The Northerners are likely to tell Tyrion to take a long walk off a short parapet if he suggests they muster to help Tywin, who they despise.   And who, as Roose Bolton pointed out to Jaime, is a long ways away, across inhospitable terrain.

You are suggesting that Tywin is going to be upset about a murder he doesn't even know they committed, but will be OK with them getting rid of Joffrey in the future - openly?  That doesn't really compute.

Tywin is not a mad warlord.  He is actually quite sensible, if quite ruthless.  His actions have clear reasons behind them.  And at this point, with Joffrey out of the picture, there is no reason for Tywin to have any beef with the Tyrells.

As for the Lannisters having a problem because they murdered the king - nobody suspects them.  And I mean nobody.  Their name doesn't come up - not even jokingly.

[Back door hodor]

I think so, it seems to me that Sansa's child,especially if Male, would be a more valuable hostage than Sansa herself. 

And don't forget, that's what she is, a hostage. Littlefinger does not rescue her from the Lannisters, he steals a valuable hostage for himself, no matter what lies he tells Sansa

[John Suburbs]

16 hours ago, Nevets said:

I seriously doubt that Tywin is going to go to the trouble of mustering a 100,000 strong army to deal with a piddling little border dispute, especially one not prominently mentioned.  and unless and until Tyrion is able to consolidate power in the North, which could take awhile, I doubt he will get anything from there.   The Northerners are likely to tell Tyrion to take a long walk off a short parapet if he suggests they muster to help Tywin, who they despise.   And who, as Roose Bolton pointed out to Jaime, is a long ways away, across inhospitable terrain.

You are suggesting that Tywin is going to be upset about a murder he doesn't even know they committed, but will be OK with them getting rid of Joffrey in the future - openly?  That doesn't really compute.

Tywin is not a mad warlord.  He is actually quite sensible, if quite ruthless.  His actions have clear reasons behind them.  And at this point, with Joffrey out of the picture, there is no reason for Tywin to have any beef with the Tyrells.

As for the Lannisters having a problem because they murdered the king - nobody suspects them.  And I mean nobody.  Their name doesn't come up - not even jokingly.

He'll do it when there is a challenge to his authority or a slight against his house. Look what he did to the riverlands just because Cat stole his vile, dwarf son. The north might not follow a Lannister, but they will follow a Stark, and Sansa's child by her legal husband will be the undisputed Lord of Winterfell. If he calls his banners, the north will rise, just like they rose for Ned to put Robert on the throne. The Game of Thrones is all about acquiring and deploying political power, and the lord with the largest holdings wields the greatest power. For thousands of years, this was Highgarden, but in the blink of an eye it shifted to Casterly Rock. This is the grave situation that Lady Olenna is trying to undo, not protecting Margy from a few bruises.

I'm saying that Lady Olenna cannot be thinking of preserving the alliance by murdering the king. Nobody is openly killing anybody. If and when they have to get rid of Joffrey, they might not even have to worry what Tywin or Cersei think; they could already be sidelined, or dead. The Tyrells get everything they want in a year or two with Joffrey, but with Tommen they have to wait at least five years and hope the alliance holds for all that time and hope that neither he nor Margaery die in the meantime. Lady Olenna is a very sensible woman; there is absolutely no reason to think she would toss a sure thing with Joffrey on the hope that eventually, someday, it will all work out with Tommen.

Tywin Lannister is the man who utterly obliterated two of his father's most power vassal houses -- not just the vassal himself but the entire house, right down to the stable boy -- simply because they didn't pay their debts. He then feigned loyalty to King Aerys only to commit the most brutal sack in Westerosi history. When Catelyn Stark stole his son, he literally set the riverlands on fire, destroying every village, town, holdfast and castle he could find, littering the countryside with thousands of dead, rotting bodies and unleashing terror groups to maim, torture and rape any survivors. This is Shermanesque total war, something the realm has not seen since the dance of the dragons. Just look at the level of destruction witnessed by Cat, Arya, Jaime and others as they travel the riverlands -- everything is burned, literally everything from horizon to horizon for league upon league. Tywin Lannister is the maddest warlord in a thousand years, madder than Harren the Black. The idea that this man would soon have dominion over nearly two-thirds of the kingdom should strike fear in the hearts of anyone who has even a rudimentary understanding of the balance of power in the kingdom, and would be of utmost concern to the house that was the dominant power for thousands of years.

I'm not sure about your last sentence. Do you mean the Tyrells? The only reason they weren't suspected is because Joffrey and Tyrion conveniently did everything they needed to do to mask the truth. If not for that, suspicion would have fallen on the very people who gave the chalice in the first place.

[Plain, Simple Tailor]

On 2/25/2019 at 11:08 AM, maiden of tarth said:

Rereading the Tyrion and Sansa chapters where they are married. If Tyrion had have consummated his marriage to Sansa, would Littlefinger have continued with his plan to rescue Sansa from Kings Landing? Would her worth have decreased in Littlefingers eyes if she wasn’t a virgin anymore and possibly pregnant with Tyrion’s child? It seems he started his rescue plans before her marriage to Tyrion. Did he plan in the possibility that Tyrion might succumb to pressure from his father and consummate his marriage? 

Yeah. Littlefinger is a weird creep who can't get over his childhood crush on Catelyn and her subsequent rejection of him. He just wants to sit the Iron Throne with Cat as his bride. Everything he does is to get to "be with" Cat. Heck, he got Ned killed most likely so that she would be a widow. 

But he saw Sansa, who looks incredibly similar to a 13 year-old Cat, and since he's a weird creep, made her his replacement goldfish. 

His motivations are relatively simple, his plotting is just a means to an end.