LOTR prequel TV series 2.0

[The Marquis de Leech]

Following on from the old thread, there was an update on the leaked map yesterday:

Middle-earth

No Gondor, no Arnor, the old name for Lothlorien... this is Second Age, I think, rather than Eorl. My instinct is that they've ditched Young Aragorn, and gone for the Forging of the Rings/the War of the Elves and Sauron, following through into Numenor.

Also, according to this interview, they really are getting the Tolkien Estate on board, now that Christopher's quit:

Quote

Could you ever foresee Amazon doing a mega franchise, like, if, say, the Bond franchise were to become available?

Totally. I mean, look at Lord of the Rings. We get behind a franchise in a major way. The Tolkiens are coming to New York, all those estate holders. The older ladies, who are now, I think, in their 80s and 90s. His daughters and the grandchildren, they're coming to New York, and Jeff Bezos, me, Jeff Blackburn, a team of us are going and they've invited us to a dinner and see some art, some creative work that they haven't shown the world yet.

What can you tell me about the Lord of the Rings series?

There's a fantastic writers room working under lock and key. They're already generating really exciting material. They're down in Santa Monica. You have to go through such clearance, and they have all their windows taped closed. And there's a security guard that sits outside, and you have to have a fingerprint to get in there, because their whole board is up on a thing of the whole season.

Maybe, just maybe, they've bought the rights to Unfinished Tales? (Which would give them more Numenor, Celebrimbor, and Eorl?). Even if they haven't, there's enough of a sketch in the LOTR appendices to come up with something. Certainly more interesting than Young Aragorn anyway, if so.

[Corvinus85]

I guess if the map suddenly shows a big island west of Middle-earth, we'll know.

[The Marquis de Leech]

10 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I guess if the map suddenly shows a big island west of Middle-earth, we'll know.

In more ways than one. The map of Numenor is Unfinished Tales material...

That said, Numenor would be well off the left-side of the Middle-earth map, so I can't see it appearing if they're starting with Celebrimbor.

(Also... I've just noticed that the map compass is in Tengwar. Yep, I smell Eregion...).

[Corvinus85]

18 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

In more ways than one. The map of Numenor is Unfinished Tales material...

That said, Numenor would be well off the left-side of the Middle-earth map, so I can't see it appearing if they're starting with Celebrimbor.

(Also... I've just noticed that the map compass is in Tengwar. Yep, I smell Eregion...).

I noticed that, too. All the region names except Khand are in Tengwar, so yes. Another thing I noticed that there two locations mentioned in Gondor's area, specifically Belfalas, and the mountain Ras Morthil. I don't know what connection Ras Morthil would have with anything, but weren't there Numeroneans living in Belfalas even before the war?

[The Marquis de Leech]

Ras Morthil was the home of the Druedain/Woses. From Unfinished Tales, some of them went to Numenor (again, there's a $64,000 question hanging over this map about the rights...). Failing that, perhaps it just means the Druedain help the Elves out?

[The Marquis de Leech]

I've checked. Ras Morthil's significance to the Druedain only appears in Unfinished Tales. 

Squee!

[Calibandar]

This is very interesting. Definitely of even more interest than Young Aragorn stories IMO.

[Werthead]

6 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

I've checked. Ras Morthil's significance to the Druedain only appears in Unfinished Tales. 

Squee!

Interesting. Although Ras Morthil appears on the map of Middle-earth in LotR, it only appears in the revamped edition published after Unfinished Tales and reprints the Unfinished Tales map. Ras Morthil is not present on the original black-and-red LotR maps, the ones that accompanied the book from 1954 to 1981. The film and TV rights derive from Tolkien's sale in 1969 (IIRC), so only the original map can be used as a source for names assuming no fresh licence has been granted.

Careful examination of the maps released for LotR and The Hobbit movies show that Ras Morthil, Andrast, Lond Daer and other UT-only map locations seem to be missing from all of them. Therefore, the presence of Ras Morthil on the new map is indeed indicative that a new agreement has been reached over UT.

[DMC]

11 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

No Gondor, no Arnor, the old name for Lothlorien... this is Second Age, I think, rather than Eorl. My instinct is that they've ditched Young Aragorn, and gone for the Forging of the Rings/the War of the Elves and Sauron, following through into Numenor.

Haven't been following this much at all for months, but if that's the case that's great news.

[Werthead]

My analysis.

This is strongly suggestive of them doing the Rings of Power story. The giveaway is Enedwaith being stripped of trees (which is not the case c 800 SA when it's covered completely be dense forest, but has been mostly cut down by 1700), the old name for Lothlorien (Lorien was adopted soon after the War of Sauron and the Elves) and Ras Morthil, the location of a Druedan community as early as the First Age and still there (confirmed by Tolkien) after the War of the Ring.

It's also very logical for a prequel to LotR being about the actual Rings; the trilogy is kind of hazy on what the other rings (other than the One) do, so this could fill in that info, further develop Celebrimbor and bring in the Numenoreans. The one fly in the ointment might be the near-inevitable recasting of Galadriel, Celeborn and Elrond, but I think they're going to have to do that anyway so better get that out of the way at the start.

They may also bring in the Shadows of Mordor/Shadows of War video game fans, which also feature a lot of material from this era (and a major appearance by, er, Celebrimbor's wraith).

[The Marquis de Leech]

My take largely agrees with Wert's,

I would point out that the coastline is technically wrong for a pre-Downfall story, but the details of the Downfall's effects on Middle-earth's coastline are only covered in The Peoples of Middle-earth (HOME XII), and thus off-limits.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Speaking of the casting, it occurs to me that a Second Age story won't have to worry about recasting Gandalf (or Saruman), seeing as the Istari aren't around yet.

[Corvinus85]

Also, if they do the forging of the Rings period, they could technically avoid having to teach actors to speak Elvish. Everyone technically would be speaking Elvish, and thus they just speak English for the audience. They could add just the occasional phrases in Khuzdul for any dwarven character, and Sauron could occasionally use the black tongue.

And does anyone know why each time they update the map, there's a new image created? Why not just use the same, and gradually populate it? 

[The Marquis de Leech]

I'd imagine they'd represent Sindarin and Westron with English, but keep Quenya as its own thing.

(I also wonder if Celebrimbor - as the grandson of You Know Who - spoke with a deliberate lisp. It'd never make it into the adaption though. The Shibboleth of Feanor is another off-limits item).

[Slurktan]

Isn't the name Enedwaith a problem for this second age theory?  Enedwaith is used to describe the area between Gondor and Arnor, hence its name.  There would be no reason for the area to be called the "middle land" if those two aren't there.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Tolkien himself uses Enedwaith to refer to the pre-Gondorian era (pp.340-343 of Unfinished Tales). There's not much else to call it, even if it might be anachronistic.

Since they're doing the updates 3, 7, and 9 days apart, my guess for the next update:

• Greenwood the Great
• Fangorn Forest
• Khazad-dum
• Grey Havens

Then, presumably, there's a 1 day update, which would make the most sense to add Barad-dur and Orodruin. Plus Eregion, since any earlier gives the game away.

[Ser Drewy]

https://metro.co.uk/2019/02/27/walking-deads-tom-payne-lets-slip-lord-rings-casting-aragorn-keeping-hair-8762896/amp/

Tom Payne says they're casting Aragorn, so it may not be Second Age stuff at all. I guess they might interweave it somehow, with Aragorn 'discovering' stuff about the history or what not, and S.A stuff will be flashbacks. But who knows at this point.

[Corvinus85]

If they do go with Aragorn, I'm not sure Tom Payne should be it.

[The Marquis de Leech]

3 hours ago, Ser Drewy said:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/02/27/walking-deads-tom-payne-lets-slip-lord-rings-casting-aragorn-keeping-hair-8762896/amp/

Tom Payne says they're casting Aragorn, so it may not be Second Age stuff at all. I guess they might interweave it somehow, with Aragorn 'discovering' stuff about the history or what not, and S.A stuff will be flashbacks. But who knows at this point.

Interesting. It may be flashbacks, it may be that they're using Aragorn as a framing device... it may even be that this is a reflection of earlier rumours. 

We'll get a better idea in a few days when the next map hits.

[Rhom]

On 3/2/2019 at 8:51 AM, The Marquis de Leech said:

Interesting. It may be flashbacks, it may be that they're using Aragorn as a framing device... it may even be that this is a reflection of earlier rumours. 

We'll get a better idea in a few days when the next map hits.

If they want to use Aragorn as a framing device, I’d rather see them go all out and hire Viggo Mortensen to sit on a throne and open episodes as a storyteller.