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The Marquis de Leech

LOTR prequel TV series 2.0

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On 3/2/2019 at 2:28 PM, Corvinus said:

If they do go with Aragorn, I'm not sure Tom Payne should be it.

One does not simply walk into the role of Aragorn ;)

I'm usually against anthologies but LOTR is big enough for such a format. 

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4 hours ago, Rhom said:

If they want to use Aragorn as a framing device, I’d rather see them go all out and hire Viggo Mortensen to sit on a throne and open episodes as a storyteller.

That would be a bad idea because then you tie it into PJ's version and really ought to bring back McKellen etc too (oh....Lee :(

Also, I seem to recall something saying they wanted to start completely a fresh, though I might be wrong there

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Posted (edited)
On 2/27/2019 at 4:40 AM, Slurktan said:

Isn't the name Enedwaith a problem for this second age theory?  Enedwaith is used to describe the area between Gondor and Arnor, hence its name.  There would be no reason for the area to be called the "middle land" if those two aren't there.

All of the Middle-earth books are either written by Bilbo/Frodo (in-universe) or are their summaries of earlier elven texts, so those kind of things I tend to put down to Bilbo using a name that fits, even if it was invented much later.

Calenardhon might be something similar, since the name refers to a province of Gondor, but it is directly quoted in dialogue in UT much earlier so it may also been the name of the geographic region adopted by the Gondorians later on.

Edited by Werthead

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13 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

That would be a bad idea because then you tie it into PJ's version and really ought to bring back McKellen etc too (oh....Lee :(

Also, I seem to recall something saying they wanted to start completely a fresh, though I might be wrong there

There's been a lot of back-and-forth on that. They've also seemed to want to have Jackson involved in some capacity. I think they may really want to piggyback on Jackson's Middle-Earth more than Tolkien's, if they can get away with it. 

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1 hour ago, Ser Drewy said:

There's been a lot of back-and-forth on that. They've also seemed to want to have Jackson involved in some capacity. I think they may really want to piggyback on Jackson's Middle-Earth more than Tolkien's, if they can get away with it. 

The New Zealand version or the CGI version? :) 

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12 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

Well, if any trolls show up who have giant spikey balls instead of full limbs, we'll know. 

And just walk in the day without issues. Ok, it was a cloudy day, but there was no visibility reduction, so the sun was definitely getting through. :D

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Depending on how far back they go.... all the elves should be alive... which means that they'll probably recast a part or two, since Elrond and Galadriel were pretty big deals in Middle earth

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Posted (edited)

Another update.

They've added Imladris, Moria, Minas Anor, Annuminas, Osgiliath, Orthanc, Minas Ithil and Fornost. That pushes us right to the end of the Second Age, after the founding of Arnor and Gondor.

Edited by Werthead

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Posted (edited)

Edit: Actually, it's not the Second Age. Moria was only named thus after the balrog, as the name means Black Pit. 

And interesting, the map continues to give Sindarin names, as in Imladris instead of Rivendell, or Ninglor instead of Gladden.

Edited by Corvinus

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25 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Edit: Actually, it's not the Second Age. Moria was only named thus after the balrog, as the name means Black Pit. 

And interesting, the map continues to give Sindarin names, as in Imladris instead of Rivendell, or Ninglor instead of Gladden.

The name "Moria" originally referred to the Black Chasm under the dwarven citadel; it was apparently sometimes used as a pejorative by the elves to refer to the entire complex, so could be used earlier than the rise of the balrog.

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9 hours ago, Werthead said:

Another update.

They've added Imladris, Moria, Minas Anor, Annuminas, Osgiliath, Orthanc, Minas Ithil and Fornost. That pushes us right to the end of the Second Age, after the founding of Arnor and Gondor.

So it’s gotta be about the Last Alliance. Bit of a bummer as I was really hoping to see Celebrimbor and the forging of the rings, but this is still far better than a show about young Aragorn. 

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Posted (edited)

Fornost isn't really a second age thing though.  Might it have existed then?  Sure but nothing is mentioned of it until Arnor splits.

I don't think the map is supposed to show a time at all, it just shows stuff named in Sindarin.  That's it. (Except Gundabad)  Minas Ithil, Minas Anor, and Calenerdhan are the only things that stand out timewise but they could still be named those at the end of the Third Age if you really want to particularly by an Elf.

 

EDIT: I do like that Umbar is on there!

Edited by Slurktan

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1 minute ago, Slurktan said:

Fornost isn't really a second age thing though.  Might it have existed then?  Sure but nothing is mentioned of it until Arnor splits.

I don't think the map is supposed to show a time at all, it just shows stuff named in Sindarin.  That's it. (Except Gundabad)  Minas Ithil,d Minas Anor, and Calenerdhan are the only things that stand out timewise but they could still be named those at the end of the Third Age if you really want to particularly by an Elf.

I agree with this, we may be reading more into this that we should.

what you say about an elf using old names made me chuckle because I immediately thought of my grandmother calling shops by names they haven’t been known by for around half a century :P 

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I really hope they are able to show how dangerous Middle Earth is outside of fortified settlements( Bree being a prime example). That if you leave territory actively patrolled by humans/elves/dwarves you will meet something that wants to kill you.

 

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10 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

I really hope they are able to show how dangerous Middle Earth is outside of fortified settlements( Bree being a prime example). That if you leave territory actively patrolled by humans/elves/dwarves you will meet something that wants to kill you.

 

That's not really the case though, anymore than Earth is. Is it partiicularly dangerous around bad guy areas?  Sure.  Stay away from Moria, Goblin-Town, Mirkwood, the Trollshaws and Mordor and you should be fine.  Sure there's wolves and such, but they aren't a thing of the enemy, just nature.

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13 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

That's not really the case though, anymore than Earth is. Is it partiicularly dangerous around bad guy areas?  Sure.  Stay away from Moria, Goblin-Town, Mirkwood, the Trollshaws and Mordor and you should be fine.  Sure there's wolves and such, but they aren't a thing of the enemy, just nature.

It's my reasoning for why the humans around Bree are so few. 

Either every time they try to expand something kills them, or they have a breeding problem.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Werthead said:

The name "Moria" originally referred to the Black Chasm under the dwarven citadel; it was apparently sometimes used as a pejorative by the elves to refer to the entire complex, so could be used earlier than the rise of the balrog.

It's also engraved on the West Door of Moria.

I would also point out the added locations - Emyn Beraid (the Tower Hills), Amon Sul, Annuminas, Orthanc, Minas Ithil, Osgilliath, and Minas Arnor have one thing in common. These are the locations of the palantiri (and Unfinished Tales contains an essay on them too...).

I wouldn't write off a forging of the Rings either, since the show could be culminating with the Last Alliance. The casting thing for Young Aragorn could even be re-used for Isildur... 

Rings > Numenor > Founding of Gondor and Arnor > Last Alliance?

(On the other hand, we haven't had Eregion...).

Edited by The Marquis de Leech

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Slurktan said:

Fornost isn't really a second age thing though.  Might it have existed then?  Sure but nothing is mentioned of it until Arnor splits.

I don't think the map is supposed to show a time at all, it just shows stuff named in Sindarin.  That's it. (Except Gundabad)  Minas Ithil, Minas Anor, and Calenerdhan are the only things that stand out timewise but they could still be named those at the end of the Third Age if you really want to particularly by an Elf.

EDIT: I do like that Umbar is on there!

An Elf isn't calling the place Minas Ithil. Minas Morgul is still an Elvish name.

Fornost is the tricky one... it's there, but would be at the very end of the Second Age. On the other hand, there's no Angmar or Carn Dum, which really would be Third Age confirmations. No Erebor either.

Edited by The Marquis de Leech

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