What do you think needs to be done to combat the obesity epidemic?

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

But loads of people go to the gym, and they aren’t all the same, many of them are really nice people.

Almost all of your post is not worth responding to, but this is just especially funny because of it's striking resemblance to Trump's infamous Charlottesville comments.

[Heartofice]

27 minutes ago, DMC said:

Almost all of your post is not worth responding to, but this is just especially funny because of it's striking resemblance to Trump's infamous Charlottesville comments.

Of course because in your mind , gym people are not far off being Nazis. I can see why you might have trouble.

Either way, there is nothing to be proud of in sneering at ‘meatheads’. It’s a completely unproductive mentality. Accepting that you are not good at something is the first step. 

What you notice when you go to the gym is that nobody notices you. 

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Either way, there is nothing to be proud of in sneering at ‘meatheads’. It’s a completely unproductive mentality. Accepting that you are not good at something is the first step.

LOL.  I'm honestly not sure if you're deliberately being obtuse or if you're actually the caricature you're presenting.  I'm not "proud" of anything, and I certainly never said anything about "meatheads."  I referred to people that tend to frequent gyms.  That's just a statistical demographic.  And I definitely don't think and never implied they're "bad" people.  They're just people I, and many others, would like to avoid.  I mean, in general I don't like people.  I like a great number of persons, but people tend to suck *insert cliche here*. 

It is instructive though that simply mentioning that fact about people that tend to frequent gyms elicits such superiority complexes from posters that presumably are people that tend to frequent gyms.

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

For. The. Love. Of. God. Kal. Quit. Misrepresenting. What. I. Said. You’re. Better. Than. That.

Here’s exactly what I wrote in response to one of your questions based on me saying society is becoming soft:

I never said people are fat because they’re lazy, greedy and dumb. I said society as a whole has made nearly everyone this way, and those negative attributes can contribute to the rise in obesity. 

Which is saying that people are fat because they're lazy, greedy and dumb. You can put some nice words around it, but that's what you mean by it, especially since it was in response to 'why are we obese now but not 50 years ago'. 

I don't even see how your clarification changes this either. So because EVERYONE is lazy, greedy and dumb most people got fat is not a particular refutation of my point. 

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Honestly this whole thread has devolved into people either saying taking some responsibility for yourself or blame everyone but yourself. I think we all know where each other stands and there’s really no point in discussing it anymore. No one is going to change their mind.

For the people who say that the main reason people are fat is because people are lazy, greedy and dumb, yes, that's true. For others, not so much. 

1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

I’m not a huge fan of going to the gym, I find it fairly tedious, but you don’t really need to interact much with anyone else while you’re at the gym if you don’t want to.

Interaction isn't the problem. The people who are thinking bad things about you aren't usually interacting with you. They're just looking at you, or judging you, or saying how it's great that you're finally going to look good, or any number of shitty little aggressions that make it a fucking chore. 

And yes, you can ignore it, and that sounds a whole hell of a lot like 'oh, that sexism? You should just ignore it'. That's true, and it doesn't fucking solve the problem at all, and it puts all the onus of changing behavior on the person who is being harmed by it.

[Erik of Hazelfield]

I don't get it. To me going to the gym is like visiting a shopping mall or riding the train. There are lots of people but you don't really interact with them. I would have no idea if they are nice or not. 

Those of you who have a different experience - what kind of behaviour do you see at the gym that makes you dislike the people there? It's an honest question. I like going to the gym and I want everyone to feel as welcome there as I do, but obviously that's not the case.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Interesting to see you equate insecurities that are inherent in human nature with "being afraid."  Great way to pose yourself as better than others, when you're not at all.

Insecurities lead to fear.

23 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Which is saying that people are fat because they're lazy, greedy and dumb. You can put some nice words around it, but that's what you mean by it, especially since it was in response to 'why are we obese now but not 50 years ago'. 

I don't even see how your clarification changes this either. So because EVERYONE is lazy, greedy and dumb most people got fat is not a particular refutation of my point. 

No, it’s not. It could be a factor, but it’s not the central cause.  However, it’s undeniable that these are problems in society, and they’re much larger than just the obesity epidemic.

That said, both of you seem to be going off of old stereotypes that aren’t really there anymore. And in the process of condemning people for being judgmental, you’re being pretty damn judgmental yourselves. You don’t know who the person next to you is. They could be some lame bully or they could be doctor/lawyer/professor who genuinely enjoys helping others. The dean of the polis sci department at my alma mater is into power lifting. He also wouldn’t judge a soul at the gym and is always will to help when asked. Would you seriously judge him to be a bad person because he has a tough face and is super built?

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No, it’s not. It could be a factor, but it’s not the central cause. 

You said, when asked what the reason was, said that was the reason. If it's not the central cause, that's on your lack of communication - but I don't think I'm misinterpreting what you actually said.

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

  However, it’s undeniable that these are problems in society, and they’re much larger than just the obesity epidemic. 

Are you saying that these weren't problems 50 years ago? That somehow, humans miraculously got way lazier, greedier and dumber than they were 50 years ago?

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 That said, both of you seem to be going off of old stereotypes that aren’t really there anymore. And in the process of condemning people for being judgmental, you’re being pretty damn judgmental yourselves. You don’t know who the person next to you is. They could be some lame bully or they could be doctor/lawyer/professor who genuinely enjoys helping others. The dean of the polis sci department at my alma mater is into power lifting. He also wouldn’t judge a soul at the gym and is always will to help when asked. Would you seriously judge him to be a bad person because he has a tough face and is super built?

I don't know about what DMC said, but being judgmental in public is something literally every single human does, and is built into our DNA. I don't think anyone who works out is particularly a bad person for working out, nor do I think that if you're jacked that you're automatically shitty. It's funny that you think that I don't work out, or that I haven't been in gyms for a lot of my life, and I'm somehow blissfully unaware of how awesome it is. 

HOWEVER, there are a whole lot more of those shitty people at the gym than, say, in a shopping mall. Some gyms are better than others in this regard. I personally have found crossfitters to be some of the nicest and some of the shittiest people, with virtually no middle ground (which I suppose makes sense given the relative intensity of crossfit). And really, it doesn't take that many people to make a shitty experience. It really only takes one. 

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

LOL.  I'm honestly not sure if you're deliberately being obtuse or if you're actually the caricature you're presenting.  I'm not "proud" of anything, and I certainly never said anything about "meatheads."  I referred to people that tend to frequent gyms.  That's just a statistical demographic.  And I definitely don't think and never implied they're "bad" people.  They're just people I, and many others, would like to avoid.  I mean, in general I don't like people.  I like a great number of persons, but people tend to suck *insert cliche here*. 

It is instructive though that simply mentioning that fact about people that tend to frequent gyms elicits such superiority complexes from posters that presumably are people that tend to frequent gyms.

If you mention you don’t like the people who attend the gym then that assumes that there is a type of person who goes to the gym. That you group them all together demonstrates your thinking quite clearly. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

You said, when asked what the reason was, said that was the reason. If it's not the central cause, that's on your lack of communication - but I don't think I'm misinterpreting what you actually said.

It’s not about a lack of communication, it’s about you taking a broad, general statement about Americans and interpreting as some form of fat shaming. I could also say that alcoholism is a reason why we have an obesity problem. That doesn’t mean all alcoholics are overweight. I could also say that an increase in sedentary lifestyles is playing a role. That doesn’t mean everyone who sits 10-12 hours a day is fat.

Quote

Are you saying that these weren't problems 50 years ago? That somehow, humans miraculously got way lazier, greedier and dumber than they were 50 years ago?

They were problems in different ways. Look, Idk how anyone denies that technology is making us much lazier. The other day I spent a few hours trying to catch fish in a game. 50 years ago, I would have likely just gone fishing. And it makes so much in our lives easier. Cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc. Just think how much more active people would be if Amazon and it’s like didn’t exist. Hell, you were talking about addiction before. What’s more addictive than T.V. and social media when it comes to technology?

There’s no way to deny that we as Americans have become greedier. And it’s not just about money. We’re greedier with our food, and that in turn can lead to wide spread weight gains. But take this as an example. During WW2 there were wide spread food rations, and the Americans of that age accepted them because there was a greater cause at hand. How do you think today’s Americans would react if there was a ban on eating beef on Tuesdays and Sundays?

And as for being dumber, technically the average American’s IQ score has risen by 20 points over this relative time span, but because of, again technology and laziness, we know more about more things, but less about those things than others previously knew. And people are less curious these days. Fewer people are reading and they’re sinking into their screens, be it TV, computer or phones, and that diminishes people’s ability retain what they see.

Quote

I don't know about what DMC said, but being judgmental in public is something literally every single human does, and is built into our DNA. I don't think anyone who works out is particularly a bad person for working out, nor do I think that if you're jacked that you're automatically shitty. It's funny that you think that I don't work out, or that I haven't been in gyms for a lot of my life, and I'm somehow blissfully unaware of how awesome it is. 

HOWEVER, there are a whole lot more of those shitty people at the gym than, say, in a shopping mall. Some gyms are better than others in this regard. I personally have found crossfitters to be some of the nicest and some of the shittiest people, with virtually no middle ground (which I suppose makes sense given the relative intensity of crossfit). And really, it doesn't take that many people to make a shitty experience. It really only takes one. 

So is racism, xenophobia and tribalism, and it’s important that we be introspective and recognize when these type of thoughts cross our minds and recognize that they’re no longer okay and try to better ourselves.

And Kal, I know you work out. It wasn’t that long ago that you posted that you had lost like 100 pounds and were making gains weight lifting that you had not previously enjoyed. And what was the response? Many posters congratulated you, and I’m sure the same thing happen in the real world. People by and large aren’t the jerks of yesteryear that enjoyed fat shaming people in the gym. Most people are just focused on their own thing and congratulate others when they make meaningful accomplishments. I’ve been lifting for half my life and I’ve never seen overt toxicity in a gym since high school, and even then it was just us football players messing around with one another.

Also, there’s no way the mall is better than the gym. People literally go to malls to people watch and mock. I’ve never heard someone say they were going to the gym for that reason.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:

Those of you who have a different experience - what kind of behaviour do you see at the gym that makes you dislike the people there? It's an honest question.

The general environment is competitive in nature.  Like, you can only do ten reps of that?  Alright I'll help you, although you're never gonna get an 8-pack like me.  And that environment is populated by people that tend to frequent gyms.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Insecurities lead to fear.

Ok Yoda.  But like Yoda you're making the fatal flaw by assuming that specific insecurity isn't an aspect of all insecurities which are a basic part of the human experience.  In my profession, we try as best we can to help people that are insecure and/or inexperienced in the field.  We don't denigrate them and call them lazy and lacking personal responsibility.

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

I don't know about what DMC said

No poster should EVER be held responsible in any way for something I said by another poster.  That just sounds really mean to that poster.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

If you mention you don’t like the people who attend the gym then that assumes that there is a type of person who goes to the gym. That you group them all together demonstrates your thinking quite clearly. 

All it demonstrates is I have opinions on the tendencies of large groups.  Everybody does that, including you.  Especially you, actually.

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

The general environment is competitive in nature.  Like, you can only do ten reps of that?  Alright I'll help you, although you're never gonna get an 8-pack like me.  And that environment is populated by people that tend to frequent gyms.

That generally doesn’t tend to happen. I think you’ve been watching too many movies. the environment isn’t very competitive , most people just get on with what they are doing and ignore what everyone else is doing.

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

.All it demonstrates is I have opinions on the tendencies of large groups:

Yes you have certainly demonstrated that, and not just in this thread.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Ok Yoda.  But like Yoda you're making the fatal flaw by assuming that specific insecurity isn't an aspect of all insecurities which are a basic part of the human experience.  In my profession, we try as best we can to help people that are insecure and/or inexperienced in the field.  We don't denigrate them and call them lazy and lacking personal responsibility.

Hey now, I was going to post the clip of Yoda, but held back. It is worth pointing out though that the two have a link.

And look, I'm not here to denigrate people, but it's important to point out that people do have to take some responsibly, and that if they don't there's a good chance they won't be able to address the other issues that Kal has mentioned.

What I'd really like to do is inspire hope!

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

That generally doesn’t tend to happen. I think you’ve been watching too many movies.

No, I've been to gyms.  This doesn't matter, but I had a literal 5 day a week workout schedule when I was captain of my high school basketball team.  It did happen then, and there's no reason to assume the same attitude isn't prevalent now.  Especially based on this response. 

PLUS, even if it doesn't generally tend to happen, that doesn't negate the perceptions of what might happen for people that are reticent to going to gyms.  That's like saying black people that don't vote are stupid because we passed the VRA.  But they've probably just watched too many movies.

9 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Yes you have certainly demonstrated that, and not just in this thread.

I think it's hilarious that this sounds like a burn in your head.

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It is worth pointing out though that the two have a link.

It IS worth pointing out.  In terms of how stupid Yoda's "philosophy" was, and therefore how flawed your argument is.

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

it's important to point out that people do have to take some responsibly, and that if they don't there's a good chance they won't be able to address the other issues that Kal has mentioned.

Yeah I don't really care about all that.  I've only skimmed the thread, but generally I'd say I agree with Kal that your perspective is myopic, to put it nicely.  All I started to do in this thread was drunkenly relate some weird thing about my father, then shit on gyms.  It's funny how shitting on gyms generated such a response. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's funny how shitting on gyms generated such a response. 

It's the stereotyping, not gyms. 

[DMC]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

It's the stereotyping, not gyms. 

Ok:  I think it's funny how shitting on people that frequent gyms generated such a response.  Thanks for making me type that out.  It worked out my fingers.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

Ok:  I think it's funny how shitting on people that frequent gyms generated such a response.  Thanks for making me type that out.  It worked out my fingers.

Sigh. I would think you would recognize why this is wrong, but I give up. I'm out.

[Erik of Hazelfield]

I'm very sorry to hear that you've met such rude people at the gym. I've never experienced that - to me the gym is full of people minding their own business. The stories I've heard mostly involves pathetic guys at the gym trying to give unwanted advice to girls in some kind of vain pickup attempt. But I believe you, and it's a pity if stuff like that is making people reluctant to go to gyms, because it's the most effective training there is.

Regarding the willpower and personal responsibility thing, I thought that debate was settled on page 2 or so. Yes, it's completely possible to change your ways and get fitter, but it doesn't work at the population level. We've been doing it for decades while obesity rates continue to increase. 

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Sigh. I would think you would recognize why this is wrong, but I give up. I'm out.

Sigh indeed.  Apparently this needs to be said, I hoped it didn't:  Basic Analysis 101 - when trying to evaluate aggregate behavior, the best way we've figured out how to do it is by identifying tendencies in certain demographics and how they correlate with displaying or simply being certain other tendencies.  Is that stereotyping?  Well, yes, if you wanna get technical.  So go ahead and use stereotyping as a pejorative in this case, and act like that makes you morally superior when it doesn't.  It just means you're using a copout rather than engaging in the actual argument.

[DMC]

14 minutes ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:

The stories I've heard mostly involves pathetic guys at the gym trying to give unwanted advice to girls in some kind of vain pickup attempt.

Yeah that's definitely a big part of it for women.  Not in my case though.  Unfortunately no one has ever wanted to check out my ass.  At least that I've noticed.

15 minutes ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:

But I believe you, and it's a pity if stuff like that is making people reluctant to go to gyms, because it's the most effective training there is.

I'm not sure if it's the most effective thing in terms of general health for an individual.  There's this thing called jogging, where apparently you just run:

 

17 minutes ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:

Regarding the willpower and personal responsibility thing, I thought that debate was settled on page 2 or so. Yes, it's completely possible to change your ways and get fitter, but it doesn't work at the population level. We've been doing it for decades while obesity rates continue to increase. 

Agreed entirely.

[Jo498]

One does not have to go to a gym to lose weight and get fitter. (While I have never been grossly unfit, I would not go to a gym if I could avoid it because of the people and general atmosphere, the music would be enough to drive me nuts.) Unless one has already grave joint problems and needs machines to only have specific loads, strains and avoid others, one can do virtually everything with bodyweight exercises in one's bedroom. Or at least one can get very far with them before one needs gym machines for more specialized exercises. On the web there used to be something called "the hacker's diet" that also has a stepwise program for such exercises one needs only about two square meters of floor for.

Sure, for some it might be mentally easier to set up regularly gym hours than to set up ca. 40 minutes of brisk walking in the park every other day and 20 minutes of bodyweight stuff on the other days. But one can use standard tricks to make it easier (spouse, friends, familiy, nagging apps or whatever) to keep such a schedule. And one can use the time that one would have needed to get to the gym for something else.