Maithanet Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I recently bought a new house and we're planning on investments/upgrades on things like geothermal heating/cooling and PV panels. These certainly appeal to me as an environmentalist, and they seem like a good investment since they'll pay for themselves in 5-10 years and last for 25 years or more. But when thinking about this kind of long term planning, I can't help but wonder how different the world will be because of climate change, and whether that kind of long term thinking really makes sense when things are so uncertain. This goes a lot further than just investments in the home - it touches on bigger issues like my career, whether to have more kids, etc. Climate change makes an already uncertain future far more unpredictable. While I have no doubt that other boarders are alarmed about climate change, is this impacting how you think about and plan for the future? Is it changing the decisions you're making, and if so, how? Is there any way for an individual to be truly "prepared" for climate change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Yeah, a bit. My dad owns a house and some property in rural, upstate New York; an area that projections generally say will be a relative winner from climate change (at least, unless/until there's societal collapse). He's getting close to retirement and thinking about what he wants to do longterm. A few years back, I thought I didn't want anything to do with the property and he should sell it if he wants to or that I would when that time eventually came. But we've started talking about how it might make sense to keep the property in the family longterm and how to fit that into his financial retirement plans. As things get worse, it'd be nice to have place where the summers aren't unbearable yet and there's relatively low risk of catastrophic weather conditions. And if things get truly dire, there's the added benefit of there being multiple tight-knit, self-sustaining farming communities within a couple miles distance (they're a little cult-ish, but not in a creepy way and are nice folk) that we already have barter agreements with the closest of. Currently my dad lets them harvest hay from his unmowed fields each fall, and they give him a discount buying their produce. That could be built upon if food scarcity starts becoming an issue, especially with upstate New York expected to start having two growing seasons as the climate warms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fez said: Yeah, a bit. My dad owns a house and some property in rural, upstate New York; an area that projections generally say will be a relative winner from climate change (at least, unless/until there's societal collapse). He's getting close to retirement and thinking about what he wants to do longterm. A few years back, I thought I didn't want anything to do with the property and he should sell it if he wants to or that I would when that time eventually came. But we've started talking about how it might make sense to keep the property in the family longterm and how to fit that into his financial retirement plans. As things get worse, it'd be nice to have place where the summers aren't unbearable yet and there's relatively low risk of catastrophic weather conditions. And if things get truly dire, there's the added benefit of there being multiple tight-knit, self-sustaining farming communities within a couple miles distance (they're a little cult-ish, but not in a creepy way and are nice folk) that we already have barter agreements with the closest of. Currently my dad lets them harvest hay from his unmowed fields each fall, and they give him a discount buying their produce. That could be built upon if food scarcity starts becoming an issue, especially with upstate New York expected to start having two growing seasons as the climate warms. Well that does sounds like a better plan than most people have. Although I think if you need to be bartering for food in Upstate NY then society has probably already collapsed and then all bets are off. I definitely see the appeal of trying to grow some food on your property to improve your resilience. But I live in the suburbs, I don't have a big plot of land, nor a lot of time to devote to growing food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Well that does sounds like a better plan than most people have. Although I think if you need to be bartering for food in Upstate NY then society has probably already collapsed and then all bets are off. I definitely see the appeal of trying to grow some food on your property to improve your resilience. But I live in the suburbs, I don't have a big plot of land, nor a lot of time to devote to growing food. True. Although I'm more thinking of if bartering becomes beneficial, rather than necessary. If the food in the grocery stores starts looking a little too wilted or there's too many additives because the real thing has gotten too expensive. If it becomes necessary, well, the area isn't so isolated from major population centers that it won't be overrun by hordes of refugees. Speaking of suburban farming though, have you ever seen The Good Life? It's a 1970s BBC sitcom, so you have to be ready for that (I think it's funny though), about a suburban couple that decides to become self-sufficient. Hijinks ensure. It's a comedy, but the show's ideas about running a farm in the suburbs with a only a house and small plot of land seem alright. Nothing revolutionary, and it's not trying to be anything more than a sitcom, but what they do doesn't seem that unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Yes. If things were normal I'd retire into the Caribbean or New Orleans. I'd also sell the family farm land which is in a northern state I have no interest in ever setting foot again, but now -- nope, even though Big Ag has done its best all around the land to ruin both it with toxic chemicals and ruin the aquifer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 What's this "long term planning" you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Yeah, when water and air conditioning gets too expensive, I'm planning a big party at the Koch Brothers' home, where I'll drink up all their water and sit in their fine ass air conditioning. And you are all invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said: Yeah, when water and air conditioning gets too expensive, I'm planning a big party at the Koch Brothers' home, where I'll drink up all their water and sit in their fine ass air conditioning. And you are all invited. Put me down as a 'will attend', will be bringing a plus one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, DMC said: What's this "long term planning" you speak of? Well, if you lack the resources for true long term planning, then just long term thinking will have to do. Anyone is capable of that (although many do not bother). 1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said: Yeah, when water and air conditioning gets too expensive, I'm planning a big party at the Koch Brothers' home, where I'll drink up all their water and sit in their fine ass air conditioning. And you are all invited. I've no doubt the Koch compound will be well defended by soapies. 3 hours ago, Zorral said: Yes. If things were normal I'd retire into the Caribbean or New Orleans. I'd also sell the family farm land which is in a northern state I have no interest in ever setting foot again, but now -- nope That's the second person that thinks owning a family farm is the key to surviving climate change. I'll be honest I'm skeptical this is really going to help much, although it depends on the manner in which things go bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 As a suburbanite, our planning is solar panels in 2-3 years battery storage in 3-5 years replace natural gas furnace with a non fossil fuel option probably in ten years, possibly replace stove/oven with non fossil fuel option in fifteen-twenty years. i was an early electric car adopter and drove a Nissan Leaf for four glorious years but I had to sell it due to California’s awful carpool sticker expiration. But as a result of that entirely positive experience, I also refuse to buy another electric car with less than 200 miles of range, as Hyundai and Kia were not releasing the kona nor Niro last year and the model 3 is out of my price range and the bolt is too small I was forced to go backwards and buy a plug in hybrid. But my next car will be all electric again and my wife’s next car will be a minimum plug in hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 I intended this thread as more of the adaptation side rather than the mitigation side of climate change. That is, not what are you doing to reduce your impact on the climate, but what are you doing to reduce the climate's impact on you (and your family). Some of the things you mention Loki definitely qualify, I love the idea of getting a battery and being able to go off grid, but even doing that in a minimal capacity would be very difficult/ expensive. Do you see an electric car as more climate resilient than a hybrid? I'm not sure I agree; relying on the electric grid could become dicey in the next few decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I bought a house next to a river. For some reason I think having a lot of fresh water nearby could be useful at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Maithanet said: I intended this thread as more of the adaptation side rather than the mitigation side of climate change. That is, not what are you doing to reduce your impact on the climate, but what are you doing to reduce the climate's impact on you (and your family). Some of the things you mention Loki definitely qualify, I love the idea of getting a battery and being able to go off grid, but even doing that in a minimal capacity would be very difficult/ expensive. Do you see an electric car as more climate resilient than a hybrid? I'm not sure I agree; relying on the electric grid could become dicey in the next few decades. I would kind of love to just be able to take out the 24 kWh battery from my Nissan Leaf, have a chassis built to hold it, and hang it on the wall of my garage as the home battery storage and not have to buy (probably) an 8kwh powerwall for $8000. I’ve sort of been dragging my feet selling the leaf the last two months because that was always my dream, but I know it’s not happening (and it doesn’t make a lot sense to have the storage before the solar, though I suppose we could switch to time of use and charge the battery at night). Yeah I think the electric car would be more climate resistant than a hybrid, my Nissan has about 8% capacity loss over four years and 38000 miles, and had zero maintenance other than replacing the old fashioned twelve volt battery. (It would be getting new tires this year though If i weren’t selling it ). All gas cars I’ve ever had the misfortune to operate have always required a lot more TLC to keep them operating and that gets expensive. So the wear and tear factor would be paramount in my thinking they’re climate resistant. Plus, if climate change becomes catastrophic (the 8 degree Celsius scenarios we are on track for), we are likely looking at sudden and severe rationing of fossil fuels for other priories resulting in most of the fueling infrastructure for gas cars becoming obsolete, starved out or illegal. In a severe global climate crisis with at least two billion dead as a result, there’s probably no way the supply remains available and the supply chains remain intact to feed the gas car infrastructure. Plug in hybrids are either of two varieties: impossible to drive all electric (Prius model) or a relatively limited all electric range (volt model) and I imagine the battery capacity loss is quite terrible on them as the manufacturers don’t warranty the battery against capacity loss the way they do for all electric, but the point is that the all electric range of plug in hybrids would be insufficient to operate he vehicle in bad climate change scenarios that limit gas supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 32 minutes ago, Rippounet said: I bought a house next to a river. For some reason I think having a lot of fresh water nearby could be useful at some point. Ever hauled water by hand? It’s a pain in the ass and close becomes far when youre hauling repeated loads. might be better off with a well, if you’re next to a river shouldn’t be that deep and probably cleaner too. :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 32 minutes ago, lokisnow said: Ever hauled water by hand? It’s a pain in the ass and close becomes far when youre hauling repeated loads. might be better off with a well, if you’re next to a river shouldn’t be that deep and probably cleaner too. :-p Yup, I'll have a well dug at the merest hint of water rationing*. Should be in about 10-15 years by the looks of it. Right now I don't really have the cash. *rationing is a strong word but it's above 20°C in Paris these days and we've had serious heat waves in the summer lately, so I expect talk of restricting water for gardening to come in a bit more than a decade (dunno if that's optimistic or pessimistic). As much as I hate to dwell on it, I'm pretty sure water will be an issue in the 2040s or so. Agriculture will be hit bad of course, so I'd like to consider being as self-sufficient as possible in the next decades, that is, growing enough potatoes to last for a few months at least. Of course, I know very little about gardening to begin with, but I've started growing tomatoes last year, and I'll be trying to keep that up in the future. Ideally, I'd like to invest in some solar panels as well, but those cost a small fortune. It's both very little and very bleak at this point, but I guess that's what this thread is about. The house I bought is old (at least a century old) and the stones make it very cool in the summer so that's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Last year we almost emigrated to New Zealand. If the job I got paid more, we probably would have. And I'm still looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Last year we almost emigrated to New Zealand. If the job I got paid more, we probably would have. And I'm still looking. New Zealand is the place to be in the event of nuclear war, because it'll get less radiation than just about anywhere else on earth, probably okay for climate change. Haven't all the billionaire's in silicon valley bought safe houses there to hedge against nuclear wipeout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Maithanet said: Well, if you lack the resources for true long term planning, then just long term thinking will have to do. Anyone is capable of that (although many do not bother). It was just a joke. A self-deprecating joke, really. Although I suppose you're right. After about a decade of grad school and adjunct at a community college, I got less than 10k in the bank. So, definitely in the long term "thinking" camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, lokisnow said: New Zealand is the place to be in the event of nuclear war, because it'll get less radiation than just about anywhere else on earth, probably okay for climate change. Haven't all the billionaire's in silicon valley bought safe houses there to hedge against nuclear wipeout? It's probably okay for climate change. Auckland is even okay, mostly. They don't rely extensively on fishing, and their climate is pretty temperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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