Jump to content
Gramse

The Others "inside" man

Recommended Posts

Ponder the idea that the Others have a man on the "inside" south of the wall. By inside I mean a person in the enemy camp clearing way for them in subtle ways and perhaps even gives them information.

What would this person do?

1. Perhaps he would try to weaken the North in some ways, since this is the region closest to The Wall and most likely to help them if The Others should attack.

2. Perhaps he would want to weaken or make the northern lords dislike The Wall and the men there. He would try to make people "forget" about the wall.

3. One would most likely want to create wars and food to weaken mankind.

4. Most certainly would such a "man" would do everything in his power to stop Stannis and "the red witch" with her fire magic. As fire is effective against wights and perhaps the fire magic also.

 

As a matter of fact, there is such a person doing exactly this thing. 

It is a person who got his job after his predecessor left for the wall and joined a white tree. And the man who replaced him is a necromancer. Odd, isn't it? 

He is described as a wizard or similar numerous times and he is associated with blue magic and blue flames when he lost his manhood. He is of course Varys the... Spider. We have all been deceived, there is a missing word in his "name", it should read Varys the ICE spider. 

I wrote a longer article about it here:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am with you on this.

Recall Old Nan's story about the "the thing that came in the night"

Quote

"Something was coming this way . . . maybe it was the thing that came in the night. The 'prentice boys all saw it, Old Nan said, but afterward when they told their Lord Commander every description had been different. And three died within the year, and the fourth went mad, and a hundred years later when the thing had come again, the 'prentice boys were seen shambling along behind it, all in chains.

That was only a story, though. He was just scaring himself. There was no thing that comes in the night, Maester Luwin had said so. If there had ever been such a thing, it was gone from the world now, like giants and dragons."

The thing that comes in the night is the Three Eyed Crow--the Great Other, Mel says "dreams are the whispers of the Other"

We know Bran and Jojen dreamt the crow, and Euron had flying dreams, he is the fourth one that the crow visited and he went mad.  The 3EC is putting together his team, and they all have crow names.  Bran means crow, joj means crow (crannog means "crow's nest"), Euron (vran means crow) Crow's Eye, and varis means crow.  They are all in chains shambling behind the 3EC, doing his bidding.  Then there is the chains metaphor, Jojen had the dreams were Bran was chained to the ground, and the crow was trying to break the chains. 

 

Also, I wrote up a whole thing on Varys and forged communications that I never posted, the short of it is that he is very good with forgeries, and has copies of everyone's seals (from a Sansa chapter he has Ned's seal).  I think he is manipulating information to cause mayhem.  Getting info from "little birds" and the ravens having CoTF inside them, might play into this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Gramse said:

Ponder the idea that the Others have a man on the "inside" south of the wall. By inside I mean a person in the enemy camp clearing way for them in subtle ways and perhaps even gives them information.

What would this person do?

1. Perhaps he would try to weaken the North in some ways, since this is the region closest to The Wall and most likely to help them if The Others should attack.

2. Perhaps he would want to weaken or make the northern lords dislike The Wall and the men there. He would try to make people "forget" about the wall.

3. One would most likely want to create wars and food to weaken mankind.

4. Most certainly would such a "man" would do everything in his power to stop Stannis and "the red witch" with her fire magic. As fire is effective against wights and perhaps the fire magic also.

 

As a matter of fact, there is such a person doing exactly this thing. 

It is a person who got his job after his predecessor left for the wall and joined a white tree. And the man who replaced him is a necromancer. Odd, isn't it? 

He is described as a wizard or similar numerous times and he is associated with blue magic and blue flames when he lost his manhood. He is of course Varys the... Spider. We have all been deceived, there is a missing word in his "name", it should read Varys the ICE spider. 

I wrote a longer article about it here:

 

So do they know they are working for the Others? Or is it totally inadvertent?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mmmmm, like an old Folger's Crystals ad, they secretly switched out his sex drive for an anti-human urge , by lighting a blue fire under his ass.   So even if he's aware they're working their will through him, you mostly follow through on your essential urges and he's been made a card carrying....member.... of the chaos party.   Because we have time to espouse everything on here, I've also spent some time pimping Varys as the....guy.... who will make the Others' plotline relevant by inviting them to dinner at King's Landing, perhaps in conjunction with Euron providing them transport and Cercei previously allying with Euron.  She might freak out at the end and try to stop the capital from becoming a feast for the dead, but good 'ol Varys will be there to trojan horse the dead on in.    Uhhhhh, how Aegon fits into all this I don't know, but I give him more hero expectation than most, so I'd forecast him saving as many as possible as part of his seige- turned- into- something- else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boltons had made sure that there are no Starks in Winterfell. Actually there  even was  Antistark (female fake Stark), so if "There had to always be a Stark in WF" had any supernatural reasons with nasty consequences then Roose Bolton could had made huge favor to Others. So my candidate for agent of Others is Roose Bolton.

Ps. When I was rereading A Dance with Dragons I was surprised that all little birds of Varys had dark eyes. Or I assumed that those would had blue eyes :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Gramse said:

Ponder the idea that the Others have a man on the "inside" south of the wall. By inside I mean a person in the enemy camp clearing way for them in subtle ways and perhaps even gives them information.

What would this person do?

1. Perhaps he would try to weaken the North in some ways, since this is the region closest to The Wall and most likely to help them if The Others should attack.

2. Perhaps he would want to weaken or make the northern lords dislike The Wall and the men there. He would try to make people "forget" about the wall.

3. One would most likely want to create wars and food to weaken mankind.

4. Most certainly would such a "man" would do everything in his power to stop Stannis and "the red witch" with her fire magic. As fire is effective against wights and perhaps the fire magic also.

 

As a matter of fact, there is such a person doing exactly this thing. 

It is a person who got his job after his predecessor left for the wall and joined a white tree. And the man who replaced him is a necromancer. Odd, isn't it? 

He is described as a wizard or similar numerous times and he is associated with blue magic and blue flames when he lost his manhood. He is of course Varys the... Spider. We have all been deceived, there is a missing word in his "name", it should read Varys the ICE spider. 

I wrote a longer article about it here:

 

The "traitor" is not Varys.  It's the Starks.  This is a song of ice and fire.  The Starks are ice.  

A well-meaning Stark already caused trouble at the wall (Jon).  Robb ignorantly marched the most able bodied among the north to the south to rescue his family.  Eddard executed the man with the right message (Gared) of warning.  So if the Others have an agent working for them, it's the Starks.  They don't know it yet.  They have so far been acting emotionally and ignorantly but their actions are hurting Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Robb marching south was one of the best things that happened to the Others. But it was Varys who started it. He and Littlefinger encouraged the Lannisters and Starks against each other. While the most logical choice would be to make The Reach, Dorne, and The Stormlands fight since it is much closer to King landing and a more natural ground to fight over. 
Also Varys claim to help Aegon/fAegon and it makes much more sense for him to land on territory already at war. 

But yes The Starks are also connected somehow to Ice. Vary is, however, actively helping the Others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Euron, yes the Black tide sweeping over a tall tower. 

Sure, he wants to be a God, but is he willing to share power with the White walkers? Are they willing to share power with a living semi-god?


Varys serves "The Realm", but failed to specify whose realm. Human realm or the Others realm?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can picture Jon taking up this role for the white walkers.  He might come back to life bitter as hell and then finds out Arya has been killed in Riverlands for trying to murder people.  That would be enough to push him off to the dark side.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Varys wanted to send to men to the Watch repeatedly. He is not working for nor with the Others.

Unless the real purpose of the Night's Watch is to have a ready supply of bodies for the undead army.  Crows are tricksy birds and cannot be trusted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best strategy against the Others is to avoid fighting.  Migrate towards warmer lands and wait out the long night.  But that makes far too much sense so it won't happen until after most of the people have been killed off by the Others and the cold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Varys wanted to send to men to the Watch repeatedly. He is not working for nor with the Others.

Yes and such men that was. Rorge, Biter and Jaqen H'gar. Please explain to me how a faceless man ends up bound to the wall? 

Don't tell me he got caught It is not plausible. He got put there with a purpose, probably to assassinate Eddard Stark or the Lord Commander.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2019 at 9:23 PM, Gramse said:

As a matter of fact, there is such a person doing exactly this thing. 

It is a person who got his job after his predecessor left for the wall and joined a white tree. And the man who replaced him is a necromancer. Odd, isn't it? 

Also, as the Others are linked to the Children of the Forest (in whatever way -- I personally think they're the tool of a revanchist CotF faction), that would make the last bit of dialogue in ADwD so much more meaningful --:--

"For the Children."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I don't dismiss the idea of somebody secretly working for the Others but the cause of the problem is man.  Man is doing something to create the problem.  It maybe is an issue of morality.  Preston Jacobs has this point of view where he posits an interesting use for the Nightfort.  The right to the first night produce a lot of unwanted bastards.  Some socially acceptable way had to be in place to rid the couple of these extra mouths to feed.  The north being poor put pressure on the newly wed couple to dispose of their lords bastard without getting their hands dirty and incurring the anger of the lord father.  The bastard gate was used for this purpose.  The babies were carried out and left for the Ww to carry off.   The threat is coming about as the result of the sins of man.  

Edited by The Lord of the Crossing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ida Hearst said:

that would make the last bit of dialogue in ADwD so much more meaningful --:--

"For the Children."

I agree, and children who are "little birds" (and some CoTF live second lives in ravens) emerging from the shadows stab Kevan to death with their little knives is very suggestive.

And Vary's phrase "to serve the realm" being a reference to the Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man"--as in to serve man as a meal to the predatory aliens (who all look alike). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Gramse said:

Yes and such men that was. Rorge, Biter and Jaqen H'gar. Please explain to me how a faceless man ends up bound to the wall?

How do I know? But Varys didn't only want to get Yoren's men to the Wall, he also suggested - alongside Tyrion - that the deserting Goldcloaks be send to the Wall after the Blackwater. Tywin insist on breaking their knees.

12 hours ago, Gramse said:

Don't tell me he got caught It is not plausible. He got put there with a purpose, probably to assassinate Eddard Stark or the Lord Commander.

I don't know how Jaqen ended up in a black cell, but we have no reason to believe that the guy works for Varys or that Varys played a crucial role in Yoren accepting him and their others as men for the Watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

How do I know? But Varys didn't only want to get Yoren's men to the Wall, he also suggested - alongside Tyrion - that the deserting Goldcloaks be send to the Wall after the Blackwater. Tywin insist on breaking their knees.

I don't know how Jaqen ended up in a black cell, but we have no reason to believe that the guy works for Varys or that Varys played a crucial role in Yoren accepting him and their others as men for the Watch.

You are right I forgot that happened with the gold cloaks. 

But we don't know if he have influence over some men in the gold cloaks, or want to use it to send someone else there too with a secret mission. 

Anyway it's just one tiny act against his major plot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×