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UK Politics: Time Marches On

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6 minutes ago, Pebble said:

So now we have to leave with a Deal,  or Not Brexit at all  (with or without a referendum or extension)  

So ... what if they can't agree on a deal, even after an extension?  Does that mean we can't/don't leave?  Or will there be another referendum?

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2 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

So ... what if they can't agree on a deal, even after an extension?  Does that mean we can't/don't leave?  Or will there be another referendum?

thats exactly what it should mean.   If we have no deal, we revoke article 50 and stay or if we have a long enough extension a 2nd Referendum.

 

what will really happen is anyone's guess.

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So takes no-deal Brexit off the table under any circumstances, but it's a non-binding vote, which means its still technically on the table. So all options remain open.

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Just now, DaveSumm said:

I’m completely lost. Which vote one by 4, and which by 43? 

Short extension got rejected (the late May one)

No Deal Brexit was rejected

Oh,  and the Malthouse nonsense was put out of its misery.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I’m completely lost. Which vote one by 4, and which by 43? 

It's very confusing.

"No Deal should never happen" passed by 4

"We want a short extension just to annoy the Europeans" lost by 210

"No Deal shouldn't happen just now, or in the future" passed by 43

 

Ultimately, No Deal has been rejected by parliament, in perpetuity... but it's not binding, and legally, were still die to crash out with no deal in 19 days

Edited by Which Tyler

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Just now, The Anti-Targ said:

So takes no-deal Brexit off the table under any circumstances, but it's a non-binding vote, which means its still technically on the table. So all options remain open.

What was the point of this, then?  To appease Corbyn?

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5 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

So ... what if they can't agree on a deal, even after an extension?  Does that mean we can't/don't leave?  Or will there be another referendum?

What happens now is that May asks the EU for a short extension. If she doesn't get it she gets parliament to vote for her deal or a no deal Brexit on the 28th of March. If she gets it then she wastes time until the day before the extension ends and then gets parliament to vote for her deal or no deal Brexit.

The only thing that can stop that is her own party getting her to stand down somehow.

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Just now, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Short extension got rejected (the late May one)

I thought that vote was tomorrow?  I'm really confused about what happened today (and I feel like I've been following Brexit reasonably closely). 

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unintentionally we may have just strengthened our negotiation hand. 

Hey EU give is the deal we want or we will STAY and fill our seats with Brexit MEP's,  you will have to listing to Farage and friends make even more speeches.

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Posted (edited)
Just now, Maithanet said:

I thought that vote was tomorrow?  I'm really confused about what happened today (and I feel like I've been following Brexit reasonably closely). 

Yes, that's the bit that confuses me, too. But apparently that was the first to go down.

Tomorrow they will do the big vote on what extension they'll be asking for.

And presumably, whether the UK will participate in the EU election. For once May said something true. If Article 50 is extended longer, the UK will have to participate. That's when things will get really interesting.

Edited by A Horse Named Stranger

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, A wilding said:

 

What happens now is that May asks the EU for a short extension. If she doesn't get it she gets parliament to vote for her deal or a no deal Brexit on the 28th of March. If she gets it then she wastes time until the day before the extension ends and then gets parliament to vote for her deal or no deal Brexit.

The only thing that can stop that is her own party getting her to stand down somehow.

Not my understanding, though nothing is binding.

Tomorrow's vote is whether we ask for an extension, and how long it should be for.

No Deal is OFF the table (despite being the default) and is ineligible for a place on future ballots.

 

Either May needs to get her agreement passed within a couple of weeks, OR we completely renovated with the EU (softer Brexiteers, probably including customs union) OR people's vote (deal or revoke) OR we revoke Article 50.

Edited by Which Tyler

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The extension vote today was with the understanding there would be a ‘managed’ no deal at the end of the extension, so it was chucked in with the other no deal stuff.

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12 hours ago, SeanF said:

If we took part in another EU election, I think we'd be sending some pretty strange people to Strasbourg.

I don't think there would be anything new about the UK sending some pretty strange people to Strasbourg.

7 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

I'm relieved we can count on the Brexiteers to sabotage Brexit by any means necessary.

The concept of strategic thinking about how to achieve their goals does seem to be alien to them.

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1 minute ago, Philokles said:

The extension vote today was with the understanding there would be a ‘managed’ no deal at the end of the extension, so it was chucked in with the other no deal stuff.

That's my understanding, that first one is now completely irrelevant, as the reason for that extension are now void

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Ah ok.

Ah, and BBC World News just had a Labour shadow secretary to clarify Labour's position.

Short extension to negotiate a new deal. But not to overturn the referendum.

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So immediately after Parliament votes to prevent a no-deal Brexit under any circumstances, govt policy on Brexit is to have a no-deal Brexit option in its extension solution. So basically ignoring the outcome of today's vote. If the govt can immediately ignore a non-binding vote why didn't they just ignore the first non-binding vote that set this whole thing off?

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8 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Not my understanding, though nothing is binding.

Tomorrow's vote is whether we ask for an extension, and how long it should be for.

No Deal is OFF the table (despite being the default) and is ineligible for a place on future ballots.

 

Either May needs to get her agreement passed within a couple of weeks, OR we completely renovated with the EU (softer Brexiteers, probably including customs union) OR people's vote (deal or revoke) OR we revoke Article 50.

Certainly that is what should happen in a sane world.

However, May will just ignore the votes (other than asking the EU for an extension when that is agreed tomorrow) and plough on.

Thinking about it, I would not put it past her to deliberately sabotage getting an extension, if only by implying that the extension is just so she can get her deal agreed,

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15 minutes ago, Pebble said:

unintentionally we may have just strengthened our negotiation hand. 

Hey EU give is the deal we want or we will STAY and fill our seats with Brexit MEP's,  you will have to listing to Farage and friends make even more speeches.

At the very least, as mentioned above, if we have to vote for MEPs they are going to be an odd bunch.  The expectation is that the upcoming EU elections are going to be fraught anyway with possible Russian interference and populist candidates from most member states. Adding reluctant UK MEPs into the mix will be something they'll want to avoid.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

So immediately after Parliament votes to prevent a no-deal Brexit under any circumstances, govt policy on Brexit is to have a no-deal Brexit option in its extension solution. So basically ignoring the outcome of today's vote. If the govt can immediately ignore a non-binding vote why didn't they just ignore the first non-binding vote that set this whole thing off?

Where are you getting that from? It's just been outright rejected.

Government policy WAS to request an extension, so.thatcould arrange our suicide. Government policy has now been force to change, and remove the threat of suicide.

Edited by Which Tyler

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