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mormont

UK Politics: Time Marches On

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23 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

 Maybe Hunt has reason to believe the EU will waver at this late stage, despite them saying for months that they won't.

The chances of them giving anything else in negotiations have dropped dramatically, No Deal is almost off the table now, chances of a second referendum have gone up due to Corbyn backing it, possibilities of a longer delay are more and more in discussion. The EU can just sit tight.  

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17 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah again, thats a point of view I don't entirely agree with. I think the EU have been very good at 'appearing' to be restrained, whilst at the same time constantly sending out sniping messages and slights. I mean we have made it very easy to make them look like the adult in the room, but that doesn't mean that they are. I will say that the EU has been especially good at using the media, and social media to put out its thoughts and version of events, something the UK and Mays government have been very poor at.  Even rightnow Barnier has been tweeting out the EU's side of the negotiations.
 

 

We might have to agree to disagree! 

The EU has more experience of negotiation, it seems to me. And,  crucially, they have always seemed to know what they want. Whereas we still don't seem to know what we want!

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3 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

We might have to agree to disagree! 

The EU has more experience of negotiation, it seems to me. And,  crucially, they have always seemed to know what they want. Whereas we still don't seem to know what we want!

Well of course they know what they want, they want the UK to remain in the EU. Failing that, the UK being in the customs union and single market is just as good. 

We have always started in a difficult position, because the country is divided, parliament is huge divided on the issue. 

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Well of course they know what they want, they want the UK to remain in the EU. Failing that, the UK being in the customs union and single market is just as good. 

Except that staying in  the single market means accepting the four freedoms of the EU - which would essentially negate Brexit.

Quote

We have always started in a difficult position, because the country is divided, parliament is huge divided on the issue. 

I wonder if there is a leader waiting in the wings somewhere who could unify the UK.  

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2 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

Except that staying in  the single market means accepting the four freedoms of the EU - which would essentially negate Brexit.

Hmm yes.. it’s almost like they know that.

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3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Hmm yes.. it’s almost like they know that.

If we're talking red lines, this is theirs.  Brexit isn't the first time they have refused to compromise on these four freedoms.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Mosi Mynn said:

Hunt: UK-EU relations 'could be poisoned' if Brussels fails to budge

What is Jeremy Hunt doing now?  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/08/jeremy-hunt-uk-eu-relations-could-be-poisoned-brussels-talks-brexit  How does kind of talk help diplomacy?

It doesn't, but it's not really doing that much damage either. I mean, what does the oak care for the boar scratching its back against it?

A lot of that Brexiter nonsense is primarily for domestic consumption. It's laying ground work for the stab in the back myth nonsense. when the day of political reckoning for this mess comes. Brexit could've been so wonderful, if it wasn't for the spiteful foreigners and the domestic traitors or internal saboteurs. You can replace domestic traitors/saboteurs with divided nation and MPs not being committed enough to Brexit. So if you wish hard enough, you will find a unicorn, eventually; maybe. Which is of course easier than admitting that this whole mess is something Jeremy C. (the Tory one) campaigned for. Remember the talks with the EU were supposed to be the easiest in human history, and they will be on their knees to give the UK a super sweetheart deal, and other nations will join the UK as independent nations free of the shackles from the tyranical EU. Somehow none of that is his, Fox or Mogg's or Farage's fault.

As far as the EU is concerned he can huff and puff all he wants, and fake outrage over special places in hell.

6 hours ago, mormont said:

I would honestly struggle to name a single member of the UK government who has not used language that was actively harmful to future relations with the EU during these negotiations. 

I think Rudd has not said anything crazy with regards to the EU and Brexit, yet. Yes, you can parade her thru the streets as horrible on a range of other issues, but on this one she has remained silent.

 

Edited by A Horse Named Stranger

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2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Which is of course easier than admitting that this whole mess is something Jeremy C. (the Tory one) campaigned for.

If I remember correctly Hunt was originally a Remainer at the time of the referendum although he's tried to reinvent himself as a Brexiter since then, perhaps to further any leadership aspirations he might have.

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As ever. Marina Hyde offers a terrific summary of another insane week.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/08/conservatives-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw

Quote

 

For now, quote of the week can only be from Northern Ireland secretary Karen Bradley, who informed the Commons, at some length, that deaths caused by British soldiers in Northern Ireland could not be crimes because they were caused by British soldiers. Oh my God, Karen! YOU HAD ONE JOB. Again. Or as the secretary of state had it later: “I want to be clear – I do not believe what I said, that is not my view.”

Meanwhile, desperately trying to define himself against colleagues such as this is cub defence secretary Gavin Williamson, who announced that the UK armed forces “stand ready” to respond to the knife crime crisis. Then again, you may have noticed there is really nothing “his” military isn’t raring to respond to. Is your cat stuck up a tree? Gavin’ll deploy a Nimrod. Trouble returning your Asos order? How does war with China sound? Appalled that your child’s school is begging you for money for essential supplies? Gavin’s going to have a Type 45 destroyer so far up your grill you’ll be spitting 3,000 shells a minute.

 

 

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16 hours ago, williamjm said:

If I remember correctly Hunt was originally a Remainer at the time of the referendum although he's tried to reinvent himself as a Brexiter since then, perhaps to further any leadership aspirations he might have.

No idea. I find the idiot brigade to be so interchangeable. Fox, Hunt, Raab. No, idea who campaigned for what at some distant past, which surprisingly happened less than three years ago.

Yes, let this sink in. The scandals, crazy and incompetence displayed there did not spread out over a decade.

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1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

No idea. I find the idiot brigade to be so interchangeable. Fox, Hunt, Raab. No, idea who campaigned for what at some distant past, which surprisingly happened less than three years ago.

Yes, let this sink in. The scandals, crazy and incompetence displayed there did not spread out over a decade.

I mainly remember because it was disconcerting at the time being on the same side of an argument as Jeremy Hunt, it's much less confusing now that he's changed direction and embraced the insanity of Brexit.

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People say the public prioritises the NHS, the bins and other such mundanities over Brexit but I have proof this is not true. 

I was at the pub tonight and when I went to point Percy at porcelain the two fellows next to me were arguing about post-Brexit trade policy. Like, literally, in the toilet. I have never heard a political discussion in the toilets before so I think quite a lot of people who don't usually take a deep interest in politics are switched on.

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Will the death of Begum’s child have any lasting impact on Javid and or the U.K.? I’ve seen chatter that her parents may try and initiate proceedings against him personally (what I read didn’t state what grounds though)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Will the death of Begum’s child have any lasting impact on Javid and or the U.K.? I’ve seen chatter that her parents may try and initiate proceedings against him personally (what I read didn’t state what grounds though)

The whole thing has made him less popular with the people who hate him and more popular with those who didn't. I've even seen a thread of thought from people on Twitter suggesting the baby was fake, which is maybe one of the more reprehensible things I've read for a while. 



 

Edited by Heartofice

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1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Will the death of Begum’s child have any lasting impact on Javid and or the U.K.? I’ve seen chatter that her parents may try and initiate proceedings against him personally (what I read didn’t state what grounds though)

So far as I'm aware the government doesn't have any real legal obligation to go and rescue people who put themselves (and their children) in dangerous situations. Whether you agree with him or not I doubt he's actually liable.

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25 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

So far as I'm aware the government doesn't have any real legal obligation to go and rescue people who put themselves (and their children) in dangerous situations.

Hum, I'd be very careful with that logic. Because you can apply that one also to journalist or humanitarian help workers, who go to unsafe regions.

Yes, I know IS does not really qualify as a humanitarian aid group (mildly put).

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53 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Hum, I'd be very careful with that logic. Because you can apply that one also to journalist or humanitarian help workers, who go to unsafe regions.

It's not exactly my logic but, no, I don't actually think the government should be legally obliged to rescue people who put themselves into dangerous situations abroad for less morally dubious reasons either. I think they should try to do it if they can but if it would entail putting other people in significant danger or there's not much chance of success then you have to make some rational assessments as to whether it's worth it.

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I know Javid's defence is that it was too dangerous to rescue the child, but let's not dignify that patent rubbish by taking it seriously.

It may well have been too dangerous: however, that was not why Javid did nothing.

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3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

The whole thing has made him less popular with the people who hate him and more popular with those who didn't. I've even seen a thread of thought from people on Twitter suggesting the baby was fake, which is maybe one of the more reprehensible things I've read for a while. 



 

Fake baby conspiracies seem popular at the moment, there’s a group of Daily Mail commenters who believe Meghan’s faking her pregnancy 

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Posted (edited)

Well, when the prime minister does it, that means that it is not illegal

Edited by Which Tyler

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