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5 wackiest Crackpot "theories"

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At this point I can't decide. It runs somewhere between there are only five characters in ASOIAF because someone is everyone else, or, there are a billion characters because nobody actually dies (it was all a reader ruse, ya see), so they just hide out and change a consonant in their name and voila!

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3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

At this point I can't decide. It runs somewhere between there are only five characters in ASOIAF because someone is everyone else, or, there are a billion characters because nobody actually dies (it was all a reader ruse, ya see), so they just hide out and change a consonant in their name and voila!

I know right. It's just so weird.

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I have pretty crazy crackpot theory about Euron being the smiling knight. The theory being the smiling knight wasn't actually killed but seriously wounded. The 3EC seems to be linked to death visiting Bran and Jojen only after near death experiences, and visiting Euron after his near death experience which explains Euron's symbolism with the 3EC. This being hinted at when Theon refers to Euron's patched eye as his "smiling eye". Jaime said the smiling knight was "a madman, cruelty and chivalry all jumbled up together, but he did not know the meaning of fear." which does seem to describe Euron pretty well. But i do acknowledge this theory is pretty crackpot having little evidence.

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Sansa is Alayne (Littlefinger's daughter)

Rhaegar+Lyanna = Jon + Meera (aka the Trident theory)

I had good laughs  reading those

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7 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

Sansa is Alayne (Littlefinger's daughter)

Never seen that one. And that’s a good thing! :P

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22 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

At this point I can't decide. It runs somewhere between there are only five characters in ASOIAF because someone is everyone else, or, there are a billion characters because nobody actually dies (it was all a reader ruse, ya see), so they just hide out and change a consonant in their name and voila!

I don't see why people are so put off at the thought of secret identities. Just look at all the ones we know about:

  • Sansa: Alayne
  • Arya: Arry, Weasel, Nan, Cat of the Canals, Blind Beth, the Ugly Girl, No One
  • No One: Jaqen H'gar, the Alchemist, Pate
  • Bran: some crippled kid in a cave, certainly not Brandon Stark, though, he's dead
  • Rickon: also definitely not the dead Rickon Stark
  • Theon: Reek
  • Ramsay: Reek
  • Reek: Ramsay
  • Arstan Whitebeard: Barristan Selmy
  • The Hooded Man: choose you're real identity
  • Tyrion: Hugor Hill
  • Varys: Rugen, some fancy lady, and possible even Varys is not his true identity
  • The Hound: brother on the Quiet Isle
  • Sarella: Alleras
  • Gregor Clegane: Robert Strong
  • ??: Jon Snow

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10 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Rhaegar+Lyanna = Jon + Meera (aka the Trident theory)

Booooo!!

Since my theories are so crackpot, I guess I'll post "R+L=J&M [Part VII] Mel's AA vision, the girl in grey = Jon's twin sister on a zombie horse" later this year. Its kinda funny too, well at least to me.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

I don't see why people are so put off at the thought of secret identities. Just look at all the ones we know about:

  • Sansa: Alayne
  • Arya: Arry, Weasel, Nan, Cat of the Canals, Blind Beth, the Ugly Girl, No One
  • No One: Jaqen H'gar, the Alchemist, Pate
  • Bran: some crippled kid in a cave, certainly not Brandon Stark, though, he's dead
  • Rickon: also definitely not the dead Rickon Stark
  • Theon: Reek
  • Ramsay: Reek
  • Reek: Ramsay
  • Arstan Whitebeard: Barristan Selmy
  • The Hooded Man: choose you're real identity
  • Tyrion: Hugor Hill
  • Varys: Rugen, some fancy lady, and possible even Varys is not his true identity
  • The Hound: brother on the Quiet Isle
  • Sarella: Alleras
  • Gregor Clegane: Robert Strong
  • ??: Jon Snow

Most of those aren't secret, though, or they aren't secret identities but just some twisted slave name. Everyone knows Reek is Theon, as one example. Ok, also, most everyone knows who Tyrion is, so I guess two examples. The "hooded man" is a fandom name for an unknown. And the characters that have taken on different names have done so for current plot and character development reasons. They will resume their true identity again (if it hasn't already been revealed), and that identity will be stronger. But if you like them, ok.

And to clarify, I am sure we will have some secrets revealed, no doubt, just not nearly as many as theories suggest.

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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58 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

I don't see why people are so put off at the thought of secret identities. Just look at all the ones we know about:

 

It's like he's foregrounding that sort of thing for a reason. But Nooooooo. SURELY we know all the secrets there are to know already, and anyone proposing anything else is crackpot. :rolleyes:

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27 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Most of those aren't secret, though, or they aren't secret identities but just some twisted slave name. Everyone knows Reek is Theon, as one example. Ok, also, most everyone knows who Tyrion is, so I guess two examples. The "hooded man" is a fandom name for an unknown. And the characters that have taken on different names have done so for current plot and character development reasons. They will resume their true identity again (if it hasn't already been revealed), and that identity will be stronger. But if you like them, ok.

A select set of people know, not everyone knows. Otherwise, there's no point in using another name. The point is that GRRM loves the device x = y and uses it a lot even if readers don't whether it's secret from the reader or just secret from other characters. To get a proper sense of their role in the series, you need to consider all of the secret identities already revealed and those who are secret to others in-series, but were never secret to the reader. 

Adding the secret identities which the reader knows are yet to be revealed (all of the Stark kids, Stoneheart, Jeyne Poole, no one thinks Bloodraven is still around...), secret identities which characters only had for a time (Barristan, whatever's up with Mel, Theon, Catelyn & KL, Jaime, Brienne, Tyrion, Cersei (used to dress as a boy), Joff, Myrcella and Tommen Hill as Baratheons...), and add characters who seem likely to have secret identities like those listed in the thread below, the list becomes massive.

That said, secret identity theories with poor support are fair game. 

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34 minutes ago, M_Tootles said:

It's like he's foregrounding that sort of thing for a reason. But Nooooooo. SURELY we know all the secrets there are to know already, and anyone proposing anything else is crackpot. :rolleyes:

Look long and hard enough somebody might think the young curly haired corpse Arya, the blind girl found at the HoBaW might be the missing 13 year old Tyrek. :rolleyes:

 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

A select set of people know, not everyone knows.

As far as Theon goes, everyone who is a "main" in the plot (not the story as a whole) knows. At minimum they suspect until the shocking confirmation. Theon doesn't even go by "Reek" during the Moat Cailin siege. As far as Tyrion, again, those who are important to the series of events know. Tyrion even makes a case that the servants at Illyrio's place probably figured him out already.

Quote

Otherwise, there's no point in using another name.

But there is. It crushes the ego of the character, just like the word "bastard" to first Jon until he follows Tyrions suggestion, and Ramsay never masters overcoming the word. Or it forces the character to reevaluate their own life and purpose. This is where GRRM teeters with existentialism. Can these others rise from these ashes?

Quote

The point is that GRRM loves the device x = y and uses it a lot even if readers don't whether it's secret from the reader or just secret from other characters. To get a proper sense of their role in the series, you need to consider all of the secret identities already revealed and those who are secret to others in-series, but were never secret to the reader. 

I agree with some of this. Also, a little bit ago I did clarify that I am sure a few secrets will be revealed, but not nearly as many as the plethora of theories suggest. And I am sure history will reveal some interesting secrets from the past. What I don't think is during the last book we are going to have to be required rethink/reevaluate the previous 6 books of info because all of the sudden 5, 10, 15, ? however many secrets identities have been revealed to the reader for the first time. I am totally aware of GRRM's plotting methods, to the point that it urkes a few when I keep mentioning how he has done this "thing" in multiple of his previous non-ASOIAF stories. Old Story talk is something I try and curb, but it slips out every once in a while. But back to the point, if you use the same ruse within the same story more than it necessary, it dilutes the effect and purpose of the main reveal. Kinda like the faceless man idea. Because it happens once, twice, people start using that as an easy go-to for so many theories.

But like I said, if other readers and posters think there are this many secret identities to reveal, go for it. I tend to stay out of those threads.

Quote

Adding the secret identities which the reader knows are yet to be revealed (all of the Stark kids, Stoneheart, Jeyne Poole, no one thinks Bloodraven is still around...), secret identities which characters only had for a time (Barristan, whatever's up with Mel, Theon, Catelyn & KL, Jaime, Brienne, Tyrion, Cersei (used to dress as a boy), Joff, Myrcella and Tommen Hill as Baratheons...), and add characters who seem likely to have secret identities like those listed in the thread below, the list becomes massive.

The Starks are thought dead by many, but not all. There are prominent in-world people who know/strongly suspect/or have seen each Stark child. The only reveal will be that they are alive, not dead.

In my mind, those temporary secret identities are not near the same as changing your name and living an entire decades false life. Those are temporary ruses to advance character backstory and identity. All were set up and revealed on page.

Bloodraven isn't a secret identity because no one in-world thinks of him at all. What he has that Bran and we readers know him by at first seems to be more of a title, not a secret identity. Now that we have him on page we can see his "true" purpose and "occupation" (lack of better word) as greenseer.

>and now quoter being weird, but to your last point,I agree that poor support is never a good theory sign. I favor lotsa book quotes if necessary. :)

 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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26 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

As far as Theon goes, everyone who is a "main" in the plot (not the story as a whole) knows. At minimum they suspect until the shocking confirmation. Theon doesn't even go by "Reek" during the Moat Cailin siege. As far as Tyrion, again, those who are important to the series of events know. Tyrion even makes a case that the servants at Illyrio's place probably figured him out already.

Yeah, but still a variation of the much-used x=y device. 

27 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

But there is. It crushes the ego of the character, just like the word "bastard" to first Jon until he follows Tyrions suggestion, and Ramsay never masters overcoming the word. Or it forces the character to reevaluate their own life and purpose. This is where GRRM teeters with existentialism. Can these others rise from these ashes?

I really like this narrative point. There's quite a lot to explore here actually. 

28 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I agree with some of this. Also, a little bit ago I did clarify that I am sure a few secrets will be revealed, but not nearly as many as the plethora of theories suggest. And I am sure history will reveal some interesting secrets from the past. What I don't think is during the last book we are going to have to be required rethink/reevaluate the previous 6 books of info because all of the sudden 5, 10, 15, ? however many secrets identities have been revealed to the reader for the first time. I am totally aware of GRRM's plotting methods, to the point that it urkes a few when I keep mentioning how he has done this "thing" in multiple of his previous non-ASOIAF stories. Old Story talk is something I try and curb, but it slips out every once in a while. But back to the point, if you use the same ruse within the same story more than it necessary, it dilutes the effect and purpose of the main reveal. Kinda like the faceless man idea. Because it happens once, twice, people start using that as an easy go-to for so many theories.

But like I said, if other readers and posters think there are this many secret identities to reveal, go for it. I tend to stay out of those threads.

I agree on this. Not you, but there's been an overcorrect with the forum in general where lots of poorly constructed x=y theories has led to disregard of the device in general which is wrong as it's actually used a lot and will likely continue to used.

33 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The Starks are thought dead by many, but not all. There are prominent in-world people who know/strongly suspect/or have seen each Stark child. The only reveal will be that they are alive, not dead.

In my mind, those temporary secret identities are not near the same as changing your name and living an entire decades false life. Those are temporary ruses to advance character backstory and identity. All were set up and revealed on page.

Bloodraven isn't a secret identity because no one in-world thinks of him at all. What he has that Bran and we readers know him by at first seems to be more of a title, not a secret identity. Now that we have him on page we can see his "true" purpose and "occupation" (lack of better word) as greenseer.

>and now quoter being weird, but to your last point,I agree that poor support is never a good theory sign. I favor lotsa book quotes if necessary. :)

A lot of the critique on the forum covers temporary secret identities. That's what my point is. There's a lot of variations of x=y in the series. And even in stricter terms, it's still used a lot. The popular forum position that it's just a wild idea that we'll get more x=y in any sense isn't taking into account how GRRM loves it so. 

On Bloodraven - I don't recall that connection being made explicitly in the books. It's obvious if you read outside the main books or hang on the forums but for the casual reader, it's the case of an identity being hidden from the reader (and Bran??) as a variation of x=y, that is, if I'm remembering right which I'm apparently not today. :rolleyes:

Bolded: Preach!

 

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Hard to pick a top 5 but...

1. Podrick is actually Tywin's daughter by Tysha.

2. The statues that Tyrion sees in the Rhoyne are actually stonemen who have fallen in the river and grown like pearls.

3. The CotF are actually the mobile stage of the weirwood lifecycle.

4. Lightbringer is one of the swords in the Iron Throne.

5. Not exactly a theory, but pretty darn wacky:

The Amethyst Empress was named Valerys, her twin brother the Bloodstone Emperor was Rhaellor. The child she died giving birth to was Azor Ahai, named Geryan, who would ride the dragon, Rubilaxes. 

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1 hour ago, hiemal said:

Podrick is actually Tywin's daughter by Tysha.

Ok, this takes the cake. The cake, and the whole damn dinner too. Awesome. Hadn’t hear this before, but am floored and flabbergasted and literally laughing my arse off here.

 

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1 hour ago, hiemal said:

3. The CotF are actually the mobile stage of the weirwood lifecycle.

Make it so, Riker!    That's good stuff.   There's pre existing acorn birthing myths down in the isles; Root it in reality why don't  you.   Marv Albert says Yes.

 

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16 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ok, this takes the cake. The cake, and the whole damn dinner too. Awesome. Hadn’t hear this before, but am floored and flabbergasted and literally laughing my arse off here.

 

Yeah, that's one almost cheating since it's really three crackpot theories (Podrick is Brave Danny Flinting it, Pod is Tywin's love child, AND that Pod is Tysha's baby) Frankensteined into one. Nevertheless, I insist it is not impossible...

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