US Politics: compromising positions

[Gertrude]

2 hours ago, S John said:

eh, it would certainly feel like a punishment to me if I was sent to prison for four years.  And with another sentencing coming it will likely be more than that.  I think going to prison for any amount of time would be a ridiculously uncool thing to happen.  

The outrage from me is not specifically the time being served, but the uneven way sentencing is applied. For instance, Wesley Snipes was convicted of 3 misdemeanor counts of tax evasion and served three years. Manafort was convicted on two counts of bank fraud and 5 counts of tax fraud and he's getting shy of four because the judge feels that otherwise, he's led a blameless life. I mean, it's horsehit. The guidelines are 19-24 and he gets a 5th of it. It's just reinforcing the narrative of separate systems of law for the rich / connected and everyone else and it riles me.

[Serious Callers Only]

More like it's reinforcing the narrative of 'I'll make a good fascist supreme judge sempai!'

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Serious Callers Only said:

More like it's reinforcing the narrative of 'I'll make a good fascist supreme judge sempai!'

The judge, T.S. Ellis III, is 78 years old.  Also, considering he's argued with - and questioned the legitimacy of - the prosecution on multiple occasions, his bullshit sentencing and rationale shouldn't be too surprising.

[Serious Callers Only]

That's why i specified fascist obviously. He's presenting his ability to be corrupt for after the coup is secured and they don't necessarily need young judges because there won't be free elections.

[S John]

6 hours ago, Gertrude said:

The outrage from me is not specifically the time being served, but the uneven way sentencing is applied. For instance, Wesley Snipes was convicted of 3 misdemeanor counts of tax evasion and served three years. Manafort was convicted on two counts of bank fraud and 5 counts of tax fraud and he's getting shy of four because the judge feels that otherwise, he's led a blameless life. I mean, it's horsehit. The guidelines are 19-24 and he gets a 5th of it. It's just reinforcing the narrative of separate systems of law for the rich / connected and everyone else and it riles me.

I agree overall, I just think the solution for evening it out should be Wesley Snipes gets 8 months instead of Manafort gets 20 years.  I think our obsession with prison is really gross and putting people away for decades, even a scumbag like Manafort, really ought to be reserved for truly heinous and violent crimes.  

[Fez]

Maybe coincidence, maybe not; the woman who founded the chain of massage parlors that includes the one where Patriots owner Bob Kraft was busted for soliciting prostitution, is a regular at Mar-A-Lago and is involved with Trump's political apparatus (also the Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis campaigns) in Florida. The Miami Herald has a photo:

ETA: When the story first broke about Kraft, it was reported that Kraft was not the biggest name involved. There's been no follow-up since then on that, maybe that'll change soon. The Herald story also has photos of her with both Don Jr. and Eric, plus multiple ones with Trump.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Why? 

Because he actually offers things that are a plus.

Quote

Why? Why not, say, Klobuchar? Or Buttigieg? I'm pretty sure there are others as well.

Amy gives you nothing as a VP, nor does Buttigieg. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, DMC said:

Fourth, I reject the notion that any "demographic balance" means there needs to be a white male on the ticket.

Then go ahead and advocate for a ticket with two minorities or two women. Enjoy defeat my friend. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, S John said:

I agree overall, I just think the solution for evening it out should be Wesley Snipes gets 8 months instead of Manafort gets 20 years.  I think our obsession with prison is really gross and putting people away for decades, even a scumbag like Manafort, really ought to be reserved for truly heinous and violent crimes.  

I agree with this, but I think it's telling that so many (not talking about you) are all of a sudden up on arms about excessive prison sentences when it's a rich, corrupt, old, white fuck facing down some time.

[Fez]

23 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Amy gives you nothing as a VP, nor does Buttigieg. 

Depends on who the nominee is. If it's someone like Biden or Sanders, there's a very real chance that the VP will be the 2024 nominee (assuming they beat Trump), either because of a one-term pledge or because of other age-related reasons. In which case, you want a VP who you think would be ready to step up quickly as a good nominee in their own right. I personally think Klobucher would be a very good nominee, so I'd definitely want an older nominee to pick her as VP (it also helps that her senate seat is not really at risk).

On the other hand, a younger nominee, like Harris or Booker (or Klobucher) who would definitely be running for reelection in 2024, that becomes less of a consideration. Any VP running for the 2028 nomination would have a powerful leg up in the nomination process, but not as much as one running in 2024 (when they can very directly say they are running for the President's second term).

[Larry of the Lawn]

32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Then go ahead and advocate for a ticket with two minorities or two women. Enjoy defeat my friend. 

Bullshit.  I realize Hillary lost, but do you think Tim Kaine brought any votes to the table?  

[Maithanet]

3 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Bullshit.  I realize Hillary lost, but do you think Tim Kaine brought any votes to the table?  

The Tim Kaine choice was totally emblematic of all the weakness and overconfidence of the Clinton campaign.  He was a "safe" choice that was totally qualified and wouldn't offend anyone.  Clinton thought she didn't need to pick someone who would actually help her, so she just looked for someone who was guaranteed not to hurt her.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Bullshit.  I realize Hillary lost, but do you think Tim Kaine brought any votes to the table?  

Nothing. He was an awful pick. But if Hillary had picked a woman for her running mate, she would have lost even more high school educated working class men.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, Fez said:

Depends on who the nominee is. If it's someone like Biden or Sanders, there's a very real chance that the VP will be the 2024 nominee (assuming they beat Trump), either because of a one-term pledge or because of other age-related reasons. In which case, you want a VP who you think would be ready to step up quickly as a good nominee in their own right. I personally think Klobucher would be a very good nominee, so I'd definitely want an older nominee to pick her as VP (it also helps that her senate seat is not really at risk).

On the other hand, a younger nominee, like Harris or Booker (or Klobucher) who would definitely be running for reelection in 2024, that becomes less of a consideration. Any VP running for the 2028 nomination would have a powerful leg up in the nomination process, but not as much as one running in 2024 (when they can very directly say they are running for the President's second term).

Here’s the rub with Amy, she’d be great at the job, but she’s not a great candidate for the job. I have a hard time seeing her actually win a nationwide election.

[HoodedCrow]

I agree with S John. The sentencing in the US is usually appalling and life destroying, for the prisoners and for thir families. It is racially and class biased.

Prison conditions are abusive and almost guaranteed to cause recidivism. There was a recent story about a prisons power outage and lawyers and families not allowed to visit to try to keep the dark and freezing temperatures on the quiet. They needed a generator.  The immigrant detention centers are off limits, and kids die there. Actually prisoners get awful medical care and rape does happen as well as unsafe conditions.

Americans can have quite an unappealing vindictive streak. However, Manafort is politically connected, and may get pardoned, anyway. Kim Kardashians relative did get pardoned but so did Joe Arpeggio. Unfair all around and almost no reaction to abusive conditions because that’s what most of the public want.

Our latest president leads chants about locking up Hillary Clinton who is not guilty of crimes, people choose to blame her for standing by her man; meanwhile Trump runs ragged over the justice system, lies compulsively,  is a sexual predator, and has been in court many times for fraudulent dealing. Now he talks to crowds who love him. Eew.

Actually I’m going to leave the US while I still can, thanks to dual citizenship. Yes, I’m a dirty immigrant of more than twenty years. I’m lucky.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

The Tim Kaine choice was totally emblematic of all the weakness and overconfidence of the Clinton campaign.  He was a "safe" choice that was totally qualified and wouldn't offend anyone.  Clinton thought she didn't need to pick someone who would actually help her, so she just looked for someone who was guaranteed not to hurt her.

 

¡Pero él habla español!

[Gertrude]

2 hours ago, S John said:

I agree overall, I just think the solution for evening it out should be Wesley Snipes gets 8 months instead of Manafort gets 20 years.  I think our obsession with prison is really gross and putting people away for decades, even a scumbag like Manafort, really ought to be reserved for truly heinous and violent crimes.  

I completely agree but that's not the world we live in, so the message is - come one guys, Manafort is important! We can't send him to jail like a common criminal.

[Fragile Bird]

2 hours ago, Fez said:

Maybe coincidence, maybe not; the woman who founded the chain of massage parlors that includes the one where Patriots owner Bob Kraft was busted for soliciting prostitution, is a regular at Mar-A-Lago and is involved with Trump's political apparatus (also the Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis campaigns) in Florida. The Miami Herald has a photo:

ETA: When the story first broke about Kraft, it was reported that Kraft was not the biggest name involved. There's been no follow-up since then on that, maybe that'll change soon. The Herald story also has photos of her with both Don Jr. and Eric, plus multiple ones with Trump.

I just saw this on my Facebook feed and immediately came here to post, but am not surprised to see I was too late, lol!

Of course she was there, and was seated at the next table! Of course she was! She was probably happy to get grabbed by the meow-meow by Trumpy!

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Amy gives you nothing as a VP, nor does Buttigieg

Uh, the rationale for Klobuchar is almost the exact same as Brown other than the pipe dream of flipping Ohio.

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Then go ahead and advocate for a ticket with two minorities or two women. Enjoy defeat my friend. 

 

[OldGimletEye]

6 hours ago, DMC said:

Uh, the rationale for Klobuchar is almost the exact same as Brown other than the pipe dream of flipping Ohio.

The thing with Brown becoming VP. Supposing the Democrats win the election and he becomes VP? Then who in the hell would end up being his replacement? Probably a Republican. He might be the last Democrat that can win a Senate race in Ohio.