Football: Bernaburned

[polishgenius]

It's weird that people still debate and disagree over whether Sterling is one of the best players in the world. Even when you take newspaper racism into account you'd have thought that more of the regular fans would see that he fucking obviously is but you look at twitter debates and the like and if he does come up it's basically with 'oh yeah, maybe him too'.

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

It's weird that people still debate and disagree over whether Sterling is one of the best players in the world. Even when you take newspaper racism into account you'd have thought that more of the regular fans would see that he fucking obviously is but you look at twitter debates and the like and if he does come up it's basically with 'oh yeah, maybe him too'.

I think Sterling is great, but I certainly wouldn't put him at a 'best in the world' category... although depends what people mean by that anyway.

He's Englands second best player IMO, behind Kane, and if we can get him to be consistent then we will do very well.

[polishgenius]

17 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

but I certainly wouldn't put him at a 'best in the world' category...

See what I mean?

Unless your definition of 'one of the best' literally only includes Messi or Ronaldo level, Sterling's up there and there shouldn't be any question about that. Whether he's better than your Hazard/Kane/Neymar/Suarez/Salah types is a matter of debate of course but he's in that bracket and has been this season and last.

[Consigliere]

Surely with what Sterling has produced (goals+assists) last season and this plus his great workrate, he should be considered to be up there with the likes of Salah/Hazard/Neymar/Suarez. As usual some players just don't get the full credit they deserve. Pretty sure if Sterling was Brazilian there'd be no question that he is currently among the best players in the world.

[Heartofice]

Yeah, depends on your definition of the best, personally I'd put him just outside the Salah/Haz/Neymar/Suarez bracket, and that is really only talking about the best attackers in the world. I think he has really improved in the last 2 seasons and is becoming far more consistent, I'm not sure he's the sort of player to be able to change a game on his own like a lot of other mentioned players are.

[Consigliere]

I'd have Sterling over Salah tbh. While Salah was great last season, I find him to be a tad overrated. I'd have Sterling in the bracket of Hazard and current Suarez (Suarez in his prime was another level) and above Salah. 

[Mark Antony]

There’s no way Sterling is a bracket above Salah. They have extremely similar numbers this season yet Sterling is getting POTY shouts and Salah is having a “down year”. 

[Consigliere]

Because Sterling offers more than Salah outside of goal scoring. And, yes, Salah is having a down year. Both Firmino and Mane have been more integral than him. Replace this season's Salah with Shaqiri and you wouldn't notice a difference. 

[Mark Antony]

Just looking at stats Salah has 2 more chances created and 2 less assists in the league than Sterling. Like I said they both have very similar numbers yet one is held to a different standard. 

The Shaqiri comment is ridiculous. Anyone who watched Liverpool games would see how important Salah is even when he doesn’t show up on the score sheet. Shaqiri can’t even get a look in off the bench over Origi and Lallana anymore. 

[Consigliere]

I have watched Liverpool. Firmino and Mane have been far more important than Salah. They both have similar numbers but Sterling has the better workrate and contributes more to his team outside of goal scoring so I consider him to be a better player than Salah. Not sure how this is holding Salah to a different standard. 

[Mark Antony]

Rate Sterling highly and he is having an amazing season. Just think that thinking he’s a “bracket above” Salah is ludicrous but opinions and all. 

Also think you grossly undervalue Salahs contributions outside of goal scoring but

[Heartofice]

Salah is certainly having a down season by previous standards. I think its probably a mix of lack of confidence, more attention put on him by the opposition, and probably more importantly a slightly different style of play from Liverpool this year. Sterling is also playing for the team that have more goal chances than anyone else in the league and has incredible players around him. I still don't think he is on Salahs level, though they are quite similar.

[Consigliere]

We were including Sterling in the bracket of players like Salah, Neymar, Hazard, Kane and Suarez but just because these players could be considered to be in the same bracket, doesn't mean that some aren't still better than others. Sterling isn't a whole bracket above Salah (and that isn't what I meant in that post anyway) but I do consider him to be the better player overall.

[Rorshach]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Sterling contributes more defensively than Salah?

Another way of saying that is I don't really think Salah has many defensive duties in his own half.

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, Rorshach said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Sterling contributes more defensively than Salah?

Another way of saying that is I don't really think Salah has many defensive duties in his own half.

Generally his role is to spring into action on the counter and lead the line at the appropriate moment. Firminio might start up front but hes a pretty defensive minded forward and that allows more space for Salah and Mane. I'm not sure having defensive duties plays into how good a player is. Ronaldo often just sits around doing very little.

[Rorshach]

3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Generally his role is to spring into action on the counter and lead the line at the appropriate moment. Firminio might start up front but hes a pretty defensive minded forward and that allows more space for Salah and Mane. I'm not sure having defensive duties plays into how good a player is. Ronaldo often just sits around doing very little.

If we're talking about who contributes more to a team, and one player is allowed to "rest" more in order to be more of a danger on the counter, that (IMO) means the one having similar numbers but with more defensive duties is clearly a better player.

[BigFatCoward]

5 minutes ago, Rorshach said:

If we're talking about who contributes more to a team, and one player is allowed to "rest" more in order to be more of a danger on the counter, that (IMO) means the one having similar numbers but with more defensive duties is clearly a better player.

Only if the played for the same team in the same position. Like for like stats comparison is daft. Sterling plays with far better players. 

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, BigFatCoward said:

Only if the played for the same team in the same position. Like for like stats comparison is daft. Sterling plays with far better players. 

Its also a different team with a different style of play. 

[polishgenius]

Yeah, I think there are reasons to argue each way between Salah and Sterling which is why I said same bracket - like I say you can argue the toss over who is better out of a bunch of different players but to say either one is definitely better than the other would be wrong imo.

[Dolorous Gabe]

For what it's worth I wasn't convinced Sterling would replicate his form from last year but he has absolutely proven me wrong. Last season felt a little bit to me like one of Walcott's excellent seasons. He had certainly improved but the praise tended rightly to go to KDB, Silva and Sane for putting it on a plate for him to score and he was still often wasteful, but his off-the-ball work and movement meant he was getting in the right positions.

This season he has genuinely been exceptional. He's making the right choices on the ball a good 95% of the time and is making Mahrez look average at best. He has more dimensions to his game than ever before, which is why watching Mahrez - who often seems very one-dimensional and predictable - play down the right in Raz's place creates such a stark contrast.