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Make Mine Captain Marvel! (SPOILERS)

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I'm not familiar with the explanation for Carol's powers in the comics precisely so I can't fully comment but:

7 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

 So then the explanation is that the fusion of HUMAN dna onto the Kree template was what opened up Carol to cosmic level abilities...... which is just getting stranger and less likely by the second.   If the secrets of god level power were buried in human DNA long ago by the celestials who experimented on us and shaped the early humans into those 3 types..... that's.... some stupid celestials.   Errr, irresponsible.  Unlikely. 



it might be stupid and irresponsible but it's pretty irrefutable Marvel fact that Marvel humans have the capability to become outrageously powerful coded into their DNA. And it makes a hell of a lot more sense that some super-powerful race created us that way than 'oh evolution is just doing it at random' or whatever.

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2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

No. He went rogue after the kree-nova war ended and he didn't want to stop fighting and take his revenge. 

I had to look this up as well because it seems a bit incongruous between the two - in 95 he's a callous evil fuck but he's doing his "job" as the head accuser, bombing planets. A decade and a half later he's deranged on a revenge mission against Xandians(sp?) because the war between Kree and Nova Corp ended but the war lasted 1000 years so Nova Corp would have needed to do something super heinous right before the peace treaty to cause someone to wig out at that point when they weren't already obsessed? 

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Predictably the movie is getting review bombed on Rotten Tomatoes. It already has 58K user ratings and Infinity War to this day only has 53K user ratings. I probably don't need to mention what sort of average user score it's got.

20 hours ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

And I don't understand why Goose scratched him at the end anyway.

 

Best scene in the movie for cat haters no doubt. Everyone knows cats are capricious, fickle and cruel. And of course cat haters have had confirmed what they always suspected: cats are inter-dimensional monsters that should never be trusted. It's the beauty of the movie, there's something in it for cat lovers AND cat haters.

19 hours ago, Heartofice said:


 

  • Overall the Skrull plotline wasn't all that interesting, even if the twist maybe improved it a bit. I kept wondering if this wasn't some sly metaphor for Israel / Palestine.. but I'm probably being paranoid!
     
  • I'm still not sure what Captain Marvels power levels are. I don't really know much about the character, but so far she doesn't seem all the world destroying. Nothing she did so far seems bigger than anything Iron Man or Thor could do. She's being talked up but we haven't seen it yet.

First bullet point. If it's at all a metaphor for Jews (Skrulls) it's their plight for almost their whole history prior to the mid-20th century. A people without a home, scattered to the 4 corners of the earth / galaxy. Hated and persecuted by all. Carol is Moses (beloved adopted son daughter of the pharoh (supreme intelligence) who will lead the people home (the Holy land / new Skrull Homeworld)).

Second bullet point. I think it can be argued that the Iron Man suit is getting up to that omega-level of power. And I've argued a few times that Thor is at least her equal in power.

7 hours ago, Jeor said:

I don't know much about the actual comic book origins but certainly the film explanation of her powers was believable in a superhero kind of way. She gets her powers from the exploding engine, which was really getting its powers from the Tesseract. Other people who touched the Tesseract or interacted with it in certain ways got zapped out of existence or teleported somewhere else (Captain America 1) but I could perform some mental gymnastics that the jet engine mediated what would have been its usual effect.

Another thing - I assumed the Kree messed with her memories, because I'm certain that in her first couple of flashbacks to Lawson's death, the person walking menacingly towards them was a Skrull, right? It was only afterwards that she realised it was actually Yon-Rogg.

Yep. It seemed pretty clear at the end that the remote Tesseract blast was unlikely to be the cause of her memory loss, and it was all the Kree's doing.

The OG way Carol Danvers got her power was the explosion of the psyche-magnetron, which fused her DNA with that of Kree DNA. But the psyche bit of the machine also gives life to the imagination and was designed to bestow super-powers on any humanoid. Which means part of how she got her powers was that they were dreamed up and brought into the realm of reality.

 

 

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14 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Yay!   :leer:

That ^ was the movie review portion.  Now on to the important stuff!

Calling all comic book experts!  - - - -

Does the movie's version of how she got her powers actually make more sense than the comics where the exploding kree machine combined her DNA with Mar Vell's???     

Because, as a casual fan and reader of character synopsis articles, I always felt the comics origin story was wonky.  If getting access to half-Kree DNA opened up huge powers in her, shouldn't the whole Kree species be similarly overpowered??  (And i gather they're not).   So then the explanation is that the fusion of HUMAN dna onto the Kree template was what opened up Carol to cosmic level abilities...... which is just getting stranger and less likely by the second.   If the secrets of god level power were buried in human DNA long ago by the celestials who experimented on us and shaped the early humans into those 3 types..... that's.... some stupid celestials.   Errr, irresponsible.  Unlikely.   They encoded us with the potential to challenge them in later eons, once we stumble upon ways to unlock our godhood like Carol has?   Who does that?   Silly Celestials--godhood is for gods.   AND.... it smacks of the egotistical self image people like to have about human destiny....the idea that we're the center of the universe, and deserve to be, because...... humans!   We need stories to tell us we still matter after science has relegated us to a small random planet in a vast cold universe.   I get that, but when stories try to put us all the way back to being at the center of the universe again as secret gods I feel like it's an overreaction, you know?  Like, similarly, nobody thinks it's odd that so many of the infinity stones keep popping up on Earth (C- 53, was it?), even when Earth is clearly a backwater planet in a vast universe of interplanetary civilizations far more developed than ours?  But no, the infinity stones would of course seek US out as the species to party with, to weild them all, because..... go humans!    We've got something no other race of beings has.   Sure we do!    Teen spirit!   We overcome all.  That's why Star Trek's federation of planets was only possible once humans made it happen.  Anyway....

What I'm saying is I found Danvers' origin story oddly unbelievable as it appeared in print, the whole fusion of human/kree opening the secrets of cosmic power up to her.    But this movie version.....  it's like she was born of the tessaract energy, as Scarlet Witch was a child of the mind stone.   And a lightspeed engine would, by definition, open up the cosmos in strange ways, reaching into the interstices of space and making all kinds of energy manipulation possible.  For Carol too, now that it imprinted on her DNA.   A more worthy origin for Captain Marvel?    I'm thinking Yes.  Good on you again, Feige.  An exploding jet plane engine is a tad less flashy and intergalactic than a large scale  kree machine melting down, but I think this stands up to scrutiny better.

Carol's origin was retconned recently in the recent "Life of Captain Marvel" limited series, written my Stohl. It was revealed that Carol's mother is Kree, making Carol half Kree all along. When the explosion happened, it didn't give Carol Mar-Vell's powers, it just awakened her Kree potential.

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3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Second bullet point. I think it can be argued that the Iron Man suit is getting up to that omega-level of power. And I've argued a few times that Thor is at least her equal in power. 


In the comics? Possibly. In the films? Iron Man is nowhere near, he's not even the most powerful tech user at the moment with Wakanda in town. Thor might be though we've probably not seen anything from him that's as silly powerful as her knocking out that Accuser ship at the end, and Scarlet Witch feels like she should be on her level in sheer raw power but isn't as focused.



Anyway I'm thinking back on it and I'm more and more disappointed with how bad most of the action in this movie actually is. The final sequences in particular- you can barely see what's going on (that's a problem for a lot of it actually, it's both incoherently edited and badly lit) when they're in the station and when they get out, it lacks excitement, because the dogfight shows no sense of heft or franticness with the guys in the cockpit just sitting there completely cool with nary a bump or g-force to be seen, whereas Carol doing her thing is mostly too zoomed out to even care (the best bit is when she just figures out she can fly and does a bit of swooping around and yelling).

Like I say action in Hollywood blockbusters is often substandard, but it's not that often this poor and Marvel have been doing much better with recent films anyway, so it really stands out.

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Not having been a heavy comic reader, I was fine with the Skrull reveal and a bit relieved that I didn't have to worry that characters I've known through ten films would turn out to be replacements.  But my exposure to internet reaction has been limited to this website.  What do big Marvel fans think of it?

Is there Mandarin levels of hate towards it?  Or has it been generally well accepted like I see here? 

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2 hours ago, Rhom said:

Not having been a heavy comic reader, I was fine with the Skrull reveal and a bit relieved that I didn't have to worry that characters I've known through ten films would turn out to be replacements.  But my exposure to internet reaction has been limited to this website.  What do big Marvel fans think of it?

Is there Mandarin levels of hate towards it?  Or has it been generally well accepted like I see here? 

The reviewers I watch (some are comics readers) are generally happy with it. I know one expressed concern that it might ruin secret invasion, but was also confident that could still work

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Maybe the idea is to humanize the aliens first , so we don't end up with a jerks vs. jerks  skrull/kree war nobody cares about.   

Confusing.   Mar Vell was Kree, but her lab was full of Skrull civilians.    Because Benning was kind of disloyal to the kree war effort.   I wonder if...... you know how terrorists surround some of their facilities with school children to discourage air raids?    Maybe they really were refugees but they were also working the situation to try getting Mar Vell's tech in their hands...both so they could get to safety but also so the engine could find its way to the skrull military in the end, after they were done playing upon Mar Vell's sympathy.   

Then , when it looked like they were gonna die, they accepted losing out on the tech and letting Danvers save them.  A powerful ally gained through what could be a con job ultimately , a sympathy play , pulled off by a skrull species who really does has aggressive takeover tactics on worlds they invade, while also at the same time they're refugees, technically.   Ronan is right and wrong, then.  Skrulls are a menace that needs to be dealt with, and Ronan is trapped in the cycle of violence that led to skrulls being this way.

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The humor mostly wasn't really there, but there was enough interesting stuff going on around Carol that you had to keep watching. Which is a pretty alright achievement for the 108th Marvel movie, when you think about it.

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I'm still not sure what Captain Marvels power levels are. I don't really know much about the character, but so far she doesn't seem all the world destroying. Nothing she did so far seems bigger than anything Iron Man or Thor could do. She's being talked up but we haven't seen it yet.

 

Well, she can fly from Earth into space, which Iron Man can't do and we haven't seen Thor do. She also appears capable of FTL travel off her own back, which is flat-out massively beyond anything any other Marvel character can do. So yeah, I think the film's ending established her as pretty much the biggest game in town. They just now have to explain why she doesn't flatten Thanos like an egg the second they meet given he had some trouble against Iron Man, Hulk Thor etc.

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2 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Well, she can fly from Earth into space, which Iron Man can't do and we haven't seen Thor do. She also appears capable of FTL travel off her own back, which is flat-out massively beyond anything any other Marvel character can do. So yeah, I think the film's ending established her as pretty much the biggest game in town. They just now have to explain why she doesn't flatten Thanos like an egg the second they meet given he had some trouble against Iron Man, Hulk Thor etc.

Flying into space and going fast isn’t putting anyone on god level though is it. I’m sure in the comics she has epic powers but it hasn’t quite been demonstrated in the movie yet,  no doubt it will.

On the topic of the action, yeah it was actually pretty bad, there were the usual fallbacks for directors if they can’t direct action or don’t have great stunt work, lots of close up shots masking impact and using camera movement to hide weaknesses. I think it’s a flaw in a lot of movies, not just comic book ones. Infinity War and Civil war are great examples of how to keep action inventive and interesting.

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33 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Flying into space and going fast isn’t putting anyone on god level though is it. I’m sure in the comics she has epic powers but it hasn’t quite been demonstrated in the movie yet,  no doubt it will.

Travelling faster-than-light without some kind of outside technological intervention (even Thor needed the Bifrost) is a god-level power, yes.

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I thought it was a solid film in the upper echelon of the MCU but not the best. I thought Larson had a great performance but the film struggled a bit with the amnesia stuff. There's a reason it's such a tired trope that you rarely see it any more, as it makes it difficult to empathise with the main character when they don't know who they are. Still they got over that by around the halfway point of the film. The rest of the cast was great, and it was fun to see Mendelsohn be a bit more relaxed as an actor, even if the idea of an Australian Skrull was a bit odd.

The de-ageing was very impressive, the nostalgia was okay but not overdone and overall it was a solid picture. The only problem going forward is that post-Endgame they're going to need to bring in Galactus or something as a level of threat great enough to trouble Captain Marvel.

There's some serious sequel bait going on. I can see them doing a sequel (or interquel, I guess) where Captain Marvel goes into space, resolves the Kree-Skrull War and we get more of a sense of what happens on the cosmic side of things between this film and GotG 1.

Also, for the cat thing are they saying that all cats are Furlines (or whatever) or just Goose was?

Quote

 

Also, I don't know why some Kree are blue and some arent? Why is that?

 

Like we saw with Xandar in GotG, the Kree Empire is a multi-planet society with numerous species under its rule. They allow skilled members of other species to work and fight for them. If they have skills they can use to their own ends. Sort of an evil (or at least amoral) Federation.

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I hesitate to say I loved it because I'm so in the tank for Marvel, and even their weaker films --like Thor 2 and iron man 3-- I enjoyed... But I was keyed in the whole movie...

a few thoughts....

The thing I love about Brie Larson is how she emotes... although her "determined face" is her default expression... Captain marvel was every bit the little girl who wrecked her go-cart... but her smile is gigantic, so when she has those moments with Fury, Maria and Monica, they seem genuine, ... and although she may not have 'comedy chops", she does sarcasm extremely well...  

To me, Ben Mendleson's Talos was the breakout character... he really is an excellent actor...

Lashana Lynch's Maria Rambeau was likewise, excellent... She was a very convincing bad-ass pilot and single mom... 

I have always thought Gemma Chan was excellent, and i think this might be a breakout role for her... 

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37 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Also, for the cat thing are they saying that all cats are Furlines (or whatever) or just Goose was?

 

I assume Goose came to Earth with Mar-Vell, and got stranded when she died, so most cats are just cats.

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On 3/9/2019 at 4:42 AM, Maltaran said:

Why are some humans white and some not? Maybe Yon-Rog is just a Kree ethnic minority :)

I liked the Skrull non-villain reveal, and obviously anything involving Goose was hilarious. The slow burn reveals of the backstory , so that we never knew more than Carol, was also well done, although it took me far too long to realise the thing on her neck was inhibiting her powers rather than giving them.

Also, the Marvel ident showing all Stan Lee’s cameos made me very emotional 

This. It was an emotional start.

I thought it was good. It sits just above average in the MCU movie catalogue for me.

Goose's reveal had a very Men In Black feel to it, which is appropriate since that was 90's movie (1999). I know the universe's are not related, though Marvel owns the MiB comic book source, but I wonder if Goose knows Orion
 

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2 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

I hesitate to say I loved it because I'm so in the tank for Marvel, and even their weaker films --like Thor 2 and iron man 3-- I enjoyed... But I was keyed in the whole movie...

a few thoughts....

The thing I love about Brie Larson is how she emotes... although her "determined face" is her default expression... Captain marvel was every bit the little girl who wrecked her go-cart... but her smile is gigantic, so when she has those moments with Fury, Maria and Monica, they seem genuine, ... and although she may not have 'comedy chops", she does sarcasm extremely well...  

To me, Ben Mendleson's Talos was the breakout character... he really is an excellent actor...

Lashana Lynch's Maria Rambeau was likewise, excellent... She was a very convincing bad-ass pilot and single mom... 

I have always thought Gemma Chan was excellent, and i think this might be a breakout role for her... 

I thought Brie and the directors tried to make Carol dead pan in her approach to humour and I think that worked for those who can get dead pan. But some people see it as wooden, which she wasn't.

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This was fun and forgettable. Bottom tier MCU for me, above Thor 2 and Hulk and maybe about the same level as Ant-Man. There are some great moments -- the girl empowerment theme is fantastically realized at the climax, Jackson is Jackson, the Goose reveal, the weird but well done memory sequence -- but overall it felt rather mediocre in construction for a good deal of its run time and somewhat fumbling at the script level. A person at another forum I frequent wondered what this film would have been like with Kathryn Bigelow helming this, channeling Point Break and Zero Dark Thirty, and boy I wish Marvel would have gone bigger with this. It doesn't help that this is following Marvel's peak run of Infinity War, Black Panther, Thor Ragnarok, Civil War, etc.

But most importantly, my 9-year old daughter really, really liked it, and that was who the film was really made for. I'm glad it's doing well at the box office, if nothing else than to infuriate the MRA dickheads.

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Rotten Tomatoes did a purge of a whole bunch of user likes/dislikes. It did have 58K user ratings, and now it has 43K. I imagine they purged mostly user scores from accounts that were created very recently.

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I think the film did a good job of showing a strong female lead without feeling preachy or knowing. I think the so called MRAs probably wouldn’t be too upset if they watched the movie

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