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Make Mine Captain Marvel! (SPOILERS)

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2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I mean, there's no suggestion anywhere that she forgot how to speak English. She did grow up on Earth and only spent 6 years with the Kree. Screwing with her memories ain't going to make her forget English. The only thing the Kree needed to do was make sure they implanted fluency in Kree on her brain. I would have preferred it if she realised at some point that her universal translator was busted from her Blockbuster fall the whole time, and that she was reading, speaking and hearing natively. Indeed that could have been a very good holy shit! confirmatory moment for her.

Her jacking the phone to make a galactic communicator shows that she's a tech wizard and not just a soldier.

As for the rest of it. I think the one thing that did stump her, which worked comedically for me and was appropriate, was the keyboard. She left Earth just around the time when typing competency was becoming a necessary skill for everyone, so her not being competent with typing on a Qwerty keyboard is a reasonable thing. And the internet cafe cafe scene correctly showed her struggling with the lowest tech part of a computer. I thought her ability to interact with any tech was fine without having to explain it given the trope that people who have no memory of their past can still instinctively do stuff they didn't know they could do (Alita, Bourne).

 

Dam, that would have been a cool plot twist. Shame they didn't go with it. I mean sure, you could argue it's all based on mussel memory, I just wish the film went into a little detail with this. Like I said in my other post, I just think it was a missed opportunity for some comedy though.

Take for example all the wonderful comedic moments Star Trek IV gave us, when the crew of the Enterprise travel back in time to the 1980's and are totally out of their element. You have a wonderful scene where Kirk sells his clock and has no idea if he got a good deal for it because he has no concept of money. Then there's another wonderful scene where Scotty has no idea how a computer works, because they're beyond primitive to the ones he's use to; at one point he tries talking to the mouse to get it to work. Bones was so fascinated by how primitive medicine is, he gives a random lady a pill that grows her a new kidney.

I like little details like that, they make the universe feel more lived in.

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6 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

It's in one of the One Shots. Agent Carter founds it in the late 40s.

I was going to say that it was fleshed out in the Agent Carter TV show, but I think it was still the "SSR" during those two seasons.  In Winter Soldier, when Steve and Black Widow find the underground lair, it has pictures of Peggy and Tommy Lee Jones' character on the wall, and I think they mention something about the founding of Shield.  And at the beginning of Ant Man, you see the Triskelion under construction in the 80s.

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8 minutes ago, sifth said:

Really? When was it stated before this?

Was it on Agents of Shield? I'm not the biggest fan of that show so I only watch it from time to time.

There's the scene in Winter Soldier where Zola gives the history of Hydra's infiltration of SHIELD, starting shortly after WW2

Also, there's a flashback in Ant-Man with a young Michael Douglas clashing with SHIELD.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, sifth said:

Really? When was it stated before this?

Was it on Agents of Shield? I'm not the biggest fan of that show so I only watch it from time to time.

It was a pretty dumb one-liner if that's what they were going for. The US govt is freakin' nuts with all of its acronyms, so to imagine that SHIELD hadn't thought about acromynising its long arsed name probably calls for more suspension of disbelief than Captain Marvel being able to fly, or gamma radiation turning you into a green monster instead of giving you cancer and making you die within a couple of months.

Edited by The Anti-Targ

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, williamjm said:

There's the scene in Winter Soldier where Zola gives the history of Hydra's infiltration of SHIELD, starting shortly after WW2

Also, there's a flashback in Ant-Man with a young Michael Douglas clashing with SHIELD.

I just rewatched both scenes, and even though the organization talked about in the Winter Solider and shown in the Ant Man scene is clearly SHIELD, it at no point gets mentioned as SHIELD.  I'll admit Zola does talk about how SHIELD, was founded after WW:II, but I just assumed they where going by their full name at that point and he only called it SHIELD, because it was the organizations modern name.

Edited by sifth

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16 minutes ago, sifth said:

Dam, that would have been a cool plot twist. Shame they didn't go with it. I mean sure, you could argue it's all based on mussel memory, I just wish the film went into a little detail with this. Like I said in my other post, I just think it was a missed opportunity for some comedy though.

Take for example all the wonderful comedic moments Star Trek IV gave us, when the crew of the Enterprise travel back in time to the 1980's and are totally out of their element. You have a wonderful scene where Kirk sells his clock and has no idea if he got a good deal for it because he has no concept of money. Then there's another wonderful scene where Scotty has no idea how a computer works, because they're beyond primitive to the ones he's use to; at one point he tries talking to the mouse to get it to work. Bones was so fascinated by how primitive medicine is, he gives a random lady a pill that grows her a new kidney.

I like little details like that, they make the universe feel more lived in.

Again, in that Star Trek example they are genuine complete fish out of water, like Wonder Woman was. Carol is only 6 years removed from 1996 tech. She's not as fish out of water, and therefore should not be portrayed as such. What should have happened is that she should have had constant flashes of memory everywhere she turned, because everything should be so uncannily familiar to her. So if anything the movie slow played the realisation that she's from here rather than make her appear to have competence in things she shouldn't in a proper fish out of water scenario. When she picked up 'The Right Stuff' DVD she should have had a flash of memory that it was a movie she'd seen as a kid. There should have been more pops of memory in the movie. It would disorienting for the viewer, but then it's disorienting for the character, so that would be not a bad thing.

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29 minutes ago, HokieStone said:

I was going to say that it was fleshed out in the Agent Carter TV show, but I think it was still the "SSR" during those two seasons.  In Winter Soldier, when Steve and Black Widow find the underground lair, it has pictures of Peggy and Tommy Lee Jones' character on the wall, and I think they mention something about the founding of Shield.  And at the beginning of Ant Man, you see the Triskelion under construction in the 80s.

Yeah the one shot is set after Agent Carter

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3 hours ago, red snow said:

The ropey aspects were mainly regarding story logic. Why was the light speed drive important to anyone when all the races clearly have FTL drives? The skrull obviously just wanted to find his family but it's beyond me why Dr Lawson was working on it and why the kree had such an issue with it. 

I don’t think they do have FTL drives, they have jump points (Starforce had to travel to one to make the jump to earth) which suggests to me that they (or some other civilisation) had to travel over vast distances to initially set those up.

In which case the Skrulls want the new drive so they can travel beyond the reach of the jump points and find a new home planet.  The Kree presumably want it so they can spread their control even further.

However, I’m not sure if that jives with the other galactic movies we’ve had.  They always seem to just jump willy nilly, like punch in someplace punch out another.  But maybe there’s just a lot of jump points in the known galaxy. 

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We've seen the jump points used in GotG 2, when it took like a thousands of jump points for Rocket and Yondu to reach Ego. A funny scene, but clearly not the most ideal way to travel over vast distances.

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2 hours ago, john said:

I don’t think they do have FTL drives, they have jump points (Starforce had to travel to one to make the jump to earth) which suggests to me that they (or some other civilisation) had to travel over vast distances to initially set those up.

In which case the Skrulls want the new drive so they can travel beyond the reach of the jump points and find a new home planet.  The Kree presumably want it so they can spread their control even further.

However, I’m not sure if that jives with the other galactic movies we’ve had.  They always seem to just jump willy nilly, like punch in someplace punch out another.  But maybe there’s just a lot of jump points in the known galaxy. 

Well, jump points to known galaxy parts is part of the point - if it doesnt have a jump point it doesnt get settled or known. The skrulls want to go anywhere they can and be out of reach of the kree.

Plus they just skip the passport scenes. You dont need to see them spend 4 days traveling in space doing fuckall. 

It's interesting that the most powerful gem by far appears to be the space stone, and all thanos uses it for is teleporting and a bit of phasing. It has been used to create crazy weapons (in cap1), a spacecraft capable of ftl, and an engine that when it blows up makes a person almost as powerful as a gauntleted thanos. And that's just taking the energy from it - not using it directly! 

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6 hours ago, Werthead said:

FTL in the MCU appears to be limited. You have to use jump points, you can't just zip from wherever to wherever, and you have to map out the jump point network and travel between them (like, say, stops on the underground), which is time-consuming and inefficient. You also can't jump sequentially: if you do more than a dozen jumps or so in succession, your brain starts to go weird (remember Rocket and the guys in GotG Vol 2?), so you need downtime between jump sequences. The whole thing is a massive pain in the backside.

The Kree superdrive seems to be much more like a souped-up version of warp drive: you point at your destination and just go in a straight line towards it, incredibly fast. No brain-melting, no laborious mapping out of network nodes, no need to find a pre-existing jump point before jumping etc.

The Bifrost is a direct-line artificial wormhole from point to the point. Sling rings and the magic portals that the sorcerers use also seem to be a similar kind of thing, but are much more energy-intensive and, in the case of the portals, more limited in range.

Yeah - it seems to be that the FTL drive is important for the refugees because it's a way of getting off the grid. Every other cross-space travel  (except the Guardians and Thanos?) needs a pre-existing structure.  They want a way to run  and hide so that no one can find them. 

I want to know the back story of Mar Vell and the Skrull refugees she's been hiding in a cloaked ship above Earth for ... years/decades?

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6 hours ago, Kalbear said:

It's interesting that the most powerful gem by far appears to be the space stone, and all thanos uses it for is teleporting and a bit of phasing. It has been used to create crazy weapons (in cap1), a spacecraft capable of ftl, and an engine that when it blows up makes a person almost as powerful as a gauntleted thanos. And that's just taking the energy from it - not using it directly! 

Danvers apparently makes a pager that can communicate instantaneously across up to two galaxies.  Maybe that’s Space Stone power because it doesn’t make much sense otherwise.  Although she also inexplicably talks instantaneously to Yonn Rogg across incredible distances using a Kree communicator/payphone/radio shack equipment.

I’m confused as to whether the FTL drive was even finished.  Wasn’t Danvers delivering it to the ship in orbit when it was destroyed? Why was Mar Vell hanging around on earth if she already built the thing necessary for her plan?

Also, when is she planning on going to Hala? She said she was coming “to end it, “ so just do that and then settle the Skrull refugees in the known galaxy, no need for a FTL drive.

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7 minutes ago, john said:

Danvers apparently makes a pager that can communicate instantaneously across up to two galaxies.  Maybe that’s Space Stone power because it doesn’t make much sense otherwise.  Although she also inexplicably talks instantaneously to Yonn Rogg across incredible distances using a Kree communicator/payphone/radio shack equipment.

Isn't that just "space-tech"?  

Quote

I’m confused as to whether the FTL drive was even finished.  Wasn’t Danvers delivering it to the ship in orbit when it was destroyed? Why was Mar Vell hanging around on earth if she already built the thing necessary for her plan?

I thought the ship with the refugees flew away at the end using the FTL drive?

I thought Mar Vell had literally just finished the drive when Yonn Rogg showed up - that was what she and Carol were testing.

Quote

Also, when is she planning on going to Hala? She said she was coming “to end it, “ so just do that and then settle the Skrull refugees in the known galaxy, no need for a FTL drive.

She never said how she intended to "end it".  Maybe providing the Skrulls with an unfindable safe haven was part of that?  It would give them more leverage with the Kree.

I would like more back story on Mar Vell and Talos' relationship.  Did they have one?  Was it just a coincidence that Mar Vell was hiding his family?  Is looked like Talos had never seen his daughter before he got on that ship - so how long was Mar Vell hiding those Skrulls above Earth?

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On 3/9/2019 at 10:52 PM, Werthead said:

Well, she can fly from Earth into space, which Iron Man can't do and we haven't seen Thor do. She also appears capable of FTL travel off her own back, which is flat-out massively beyond anything any other Marvel character can do. So yeah, I think the film's ending established her as pretty much the biggest game in town. They just now have to explain why she doesn't flatten Thanos like an egg the second they meet given he had some trouble against Iron Man, Hulk Thor etc.

I guess the question is, to what degree is beating Thanos an issue? Is the glove operational, can he just do it again if they reverse it? It could be the film revolves largely around undoing it, and then going to visit Thanos on his farm afterward is just a fairly straightforward bit of housekeeping. We already had the ‘trying to defeat Thanos’ movie, it’d be a shame to rehash that.

On the other hand, if the glove does work, or Thanos can still wield the stones in some fashion? Then it’s all back in play. I could totally see the space stone nullifying Captain Marvel’s powers, or even if she came in full strength, he could make her perceive a different reality, or just rewind time.

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18 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

Maybe he opted to try out the glass eye for a bit before giving up on it? :laugh:

Award this man a No-Prize!

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Regarding the ages of aunts and fathers...

John Tyler was the tenth president of the US from 1841-45 and still has two living grandsons.

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18 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Goose scratched him because Fury was getting all up in his face.

And even though the scratch itself wasn't bad, I'm assuming the space cat had poisonous claws or some such that ruined the eye..

Fury says “It’s just a scratch” and the camera looks at Talos and he shakes his head no with an “Oh shit” type expression.  He knew it was going down.

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17 hours ago, red snow said:

I do think there was something missing with her relationship with Rambeau (although I like how they are setting the daughter up for present day films) though. It just felt a bit "there" without there really being any establishment of the relationship. There were several moments where I wonder whether the film-makers backed out of having them be married? It would have actually filled a lot of the blanks for me. That said it was refreshing not to have a film with a love interest in it! That's probably as novel to a marvel film as having a female lead - although I guess Civil war avoided that (it was more about the end of the Cap/stark bromance).

The US military didn’t allow homosexuals until Dont Ask Don’t Tell in 1994 to say nothing of not allowing gay marriage in the states until 2015.

I’m glad we had her as a friend.  It was a believable relationship.  I was afraid they would dwell on things like the guy in the clip about the Cockpit.  They had just the right amount of symbolism without coming across as too much on the nose.

I feel the fact that she was still sorting out her memories with her was done really well with the relationship with Rambeau.

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I thought the end, like a lot of Marvel films, was fairly boring. It's turns out the Kree are the bad guys and Carol's super duper powerful and everything's resolved by her smashing lots of stuff in a not particularly good action scene. There's no real tension.

I think it'd have been more interesting if the Kree had a bit more nuance. If they had to make Carol so powerful, and maybe they need to for later films, at least make her a little more reluctant to kill hundreds (?) of Kree she's been living and working with for 6 years. Presumably the guy who said he didn't want to hurt her was her friend but she apparently didn't care.

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1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

I thought the end, like a lot of Marvel films, was fairly boring. It's turns out the Kree are the bad guys and Carol's super duper powerful and everything's resolved by her smashing lots of stuff in a not particularly good action scene. There's no real tension.

I think it'd have been more interesting if the Kree had a bit more nuance. If they had to make Carol so powerful, and maybe they need to for later films, at least make her a little more reluctant to kill hundreds (?) of Kree she's been living and working with for 6 years. Presumably the guy who said he didn't want to hurt her was her friend but she apparently didn't care.

I'm not super knowledgeable about this aspect of the comics, but I believe the Skrulls and Kree are both somewhat morally grey in the comics, with good and bad guys in both. In fact, I believe there's even a story where Talos and Ronan join forces against a mutual, greater enemy that threatens both races. I think that moral ambiguity will come back if they reappear in the future.

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