Athletic Debate: Who Is The Greatest Of All Time?

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

No. Be has more total gifts that make him good at basketball. He's massive and very agile for his size  Westbrook for example is off the charts more athletic than LeBron

This is a farcical opinion.  LeBron is plainly the more impressive athlete than Westbrook, that's not even comparing between sports.

However, I do agree with you that LeBron would not be a good goalkeeper.  That's just, ya know, physics.  Strategically, I'd just shoot low and that's inherently gonna be a lot tougher to defend when you're 6'8."

[polishgenius]

6 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

With his physical attributes, theoretically, he could have made a great CB too but even with that, defensive positioning and awareness, decision making, tackling technique, 1v1 defending and ball distribution are bigger factors. Using some big men as examples: he could be world class like Van Dijk or average like Yerry Mina - impossible to know whether or not he would possess the necessary skill set.

And yeah, this is the thing that seems to be getting a little bit lost in this discussion - when we say 'best athlete' do we mean 'best at their sport' or literally just the best combination of strong/fast/agile all that stuff?

Because I'd argue that the most athletic footballer right in the world right now is Adama Traore and that frankly it isn't much of a contest between him and the next guy, but he's a pretty average footballer in a top-level context.

[BigFatCoward]

8 minutes ago, dooog said:

I have noticed, it's almost as if he''s spent over 20 years putting on muscle mass in order to excel at his chosen sporting profession.

He was too big to be a goalkeeper at 18 you idiot. Do you even know what a goalkeeper is? 

[dooog]

9 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

He was too big to be a goalkeeper at 18 you idiot. Do you even know what a goalkeeper is? 

You're quite the imbecile. You should've stuck to saying everyone that disagrees with you is a Trump supporter, that one was a real winner.

[the Greenleif Stark]

You're getting too caught up on the goalkeeper aspect of it, if LeBron grew up playing only soccer I have no doubt he'd be a professional soccer player, keeper or any other position. And again, getting back to being "most athletic," to me is about who can pick up sports and just excel at them.  I'm American so I have only American sports to draw on and that's why I said guys like Bo Jackosn(NFL Pro-Bowler and MLB All-Star), Deion Sanders, Michael Jordan, Charlie Ward, we're guys I consider to be some of the most athletic athletes I've ever seen because they excelled at multiple professional sports.  I threw LeBron out there because, like I said, I think he would have been a professional athlete of any sport he decided to play, because of his athletic gifts, determination, competitive nature and work ethic.

[BigFatCoward]

Just now, the Greenleif Stark said:

You're getting too caught up on the goalkeeper aspect of it, if LeBron grew up playing only soccer I have no doubt he'd be a professional soccer player

He could no more play football than I could walk on the moon. His body is wrong. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

35 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

And yeah, this is the thing that seems to be getting a little bit lost in this discussion - when we say 'best athlete' do we mean 'best at their sport' or literally just the best combination of strong/fast/agile all that stuff?

Because I'd argue that the most athletic footballer right in the world right now is Adama Traore and that frankly it isn't much of a contest between him and the next guy, but he's a pretty average footballer in a top-level context.

When I started this thread I was thinking more about best overall athlete, someone who could dominate in many sports. That’s why I went with Jim Thorpe because he was great at everything. But per usual, these kind of threads evolve and take on a mind of their own, so whatever is fine at this point.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

24 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

You're getting too caught up on the goalkeeper aspect of it, if LeBron grew up playing only soccer I have no doubt he'd be a professional soccer player, keeper or any other position. And again, getting back to being "most athletic," to me is about who can pick up sports and just excel at them.  I'm American so I have only American sports to draw on and that's why I said guys like Bo Jackosn(NFL Pro-Bowler and MLB All-Star), Deion Sanders, Michael Jordan, Charlie Ward, we're guys I consider to be some of the most athletic athletes I've ever seen because they excelled at multiple professional sports.  I threw LeBron out there because, like I said, I think he would have been a professional athlete of any sport he decided to play, because of his athletic gifts, determination, competitive nature and work ethic.

Get out of here with this nonsense. Jordan was a terrible baseball player. That’s why he was not someone I considered. He’s the best basketball player ever, but his athletics failed to transition to baseball because it largely took away his best skill (jumping).

[BigFatCoward]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Get out of here with this nonsense. Jordan was a terrible baseball player. That’s why he was not someone I considered. He’s the best basketball player ever, but his athletics failed to transition to baseball because it largely took away his best skill (jumping).

My whole point. Good at x is not good at y, unless there is evidence to the contrary. Sanders, Jackson, decathletes etc. Jordan was more athletic than LeBron. Did it work at baseball? 

[Bastard of Bournemouth]

Batman.

Batman is generally the best at most things.

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Ah let's see.

GOAT Ali.

Otherwise by sports.

NHL: Mario Lemieux.

Football (soccer for the yanks): Maradona (es mas grande que Pele).

Golf: j/k golf is not a sport.

Basketball: Jordan

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

My whole point. Good at x is not good at y, unless there is evidence to the contrary. Sanders, Jackson, decathletes etc. Jordan was more athletic than LeBron. Did it work at baseball? 

Personally I have always argued that LeBron would be a great goalie, but I don’t think he could have had a very long career unless he dropped to 230 or so (so like 16 ½ stones?). I don’t think he could have played any other position though. I also do think that if the best players in the NBA had trained their whole lives for soccer, we would have the best team in the world, but that doesn’t mean all the stars would translate over and some of the guys that are role players might have been stars in the EPL. It’s really a crap shoot.

Frankly if LeBron was to play another sport, he’d be a TE or a DE in the NFL.

[polishgenius]

I don't know if LeBron could be an actual pro footballer and amost certainly wouldn't be one of the best of the best, but the argument that no tall person could ever conceivably play high level football is a bit odd. Peter Crouch managed and I'm pretty sure he's less athletic than LeBron by any conceivable measure. 

[BigFatCoward]

8 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I don't know if LeBron could be an actual pro footballer and amost certainly wouldn't be one of the best of the best, but the argument that no tall person could ever conceivably play high level football is a bit odd. Peter Crouch managed and I'm pretty sure he's less athletic than LeBron by any conceivable measure. 

But he can play football. That's the point. Being good at one does not translate unless does. 

[Consigliere]

Dunno why we are talking about LeBron possibly excelling as a footballer. I think if he had grown up in a Commonwealth country, he'd have been a rugby player. He'd have made a great lock. 

ETA. specifically (of the two locks) a #5.

[Philokles]

If all the Americans in the NBA and NFL played football their entire lives, the USMNT would be no better than it is now. It is in the tens of thousands who tried to make it in the NBA and NFL but were too short, too slow or not powerful enough where the untapped talent lies. They may only be 8/10, not 10/10, athletes but that is enough in football if you have the technical ability and reading of the game some amongst them will have.

[williamjm]

4 hours ago, Fez said:

I will say that when I spent a semester in the UK 10 years ago, almost every guy at the university was obsessed with American Football. The bars on campus would still be packed at 2am Monday mornings for the late Sunday games. Not sure if that's changed or if its just a phase they go through while at uni.

They did think baseball was nonsense though, always comparing it to rounders. Not sure I ever heard an opinion on basketball. But baseball and basketball definitely have large, and growing, appeal outside of the US; just not in every country.

I think American Football does have a cult following in the UK, although it's never really taken off in terms of being played here. I remember back in the 90s there some sort of NFL Europe with teams in Edinburgh and London which attracted some initial interest but seemed to die off after a few years. Basketball is probably the most widely played of the big American sports and there is an ice hockey league but I don't think they get big audiences. I'd think that a lot more people play (field) hockey than ice hockey. Baseball is probably the one which attracts the least interest.

[ljkeane]

6 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Dunno why we are talking about LeBron possibly excelling as a footballer. I think if he had grown up in a Commonwealth country, he'd have been a rugby player. He'd have made a great lock. 

I don't think he'd even have to have grown up in a rugby playing country. If he'd wanted to transition to playing rugby for some reason and was willing to commit a couple of years to it he probably could have done it. Rugby, like American football, is a sport were if you're big and athletic enough (and have a certain amount of disregard for your own personal safety) you can pick it up at a later age in a lot of positions. It's the key decision making positions like the halfbacks in rugby or quarterbacks in American football were you probably need more of a grounding in the sport.

 

 

 

[Impmk2]

I'm lolling at the description of cricket as a niche sport. I struggle to think of a ball sport with more of a global following, aside from football (soccer).

Just because something is not big in the US, does not make it niche.

Also gone are the days (80s) where world class players could be overweight. These days they're expected to be able to play hard in matches lasting from a little over 2hrs, to 7hrs a day for 5 days, often in oppressive heat (if outside the UK). There's a reason so many break down, especially amongst the fast bowlers.

22 hours ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Alex honnold escaleted El Capitan a 900 meter face of a mountain with no ropes or security of any kind.

This is a hard one. Yeah sure as far as endurance, determination, and the ability to comparmentalise fear. But there's climbers (eg. Adam Ondra) who are head and shoulders above him as far as the technical difficultly of routes they can send.

My MMA pick, who I don't think has been mentioned yet is Anderson Silva. At his peak he was untouchable. Toyed with his opponents, which was ultimately probably his downfall.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I think American Football does have a cult following in the UK, although it's never really taken off in terms of being played here. I remember back in the 90s there some sort of NFL Europe with teams in Edinburgh and London which attracted some initial interest but seemed to die off after a few years. Basketball is probably the most widely played of the big American sports and there is an ice hockey league but I don't think they get big audiences. I'd think that a lot more people play (field) hockey than ice hockey. Baseball is probably the one which attracts the least interest.

I think the key with football in the UK is you guys need a team for it to really take off. The ticket sales are great for the games you get and speaking honestly, we tend to send you the worst teams in the league. It's also not surprising the NFL Europe failed because the level of talent was so different. Football that isn't elite can actually be painful to watch (mainly due to QB play). It's why other leagues here have failed too.