Athletic Debate: Who Is The Greatest Of All Time?

[Conflicting Thought]

2 minutes ago, Impmk2 said:

I'm lolling at the description of cricket as a niche sport. I struggle to think of a ball sport with more of a global following, aside from football (soccer).

Just because something is not big in the US, does not make it niche.

Also gone are the days (80s) where world class players could be overweight. These days they're expected to be able to play hard in matches lasting from a little over 2hrs, to 7hrs a day for 5 days, often in oppressive heat (if outside the UK). There's a reason so many break down, especially amongst the fast bowlers.

This is a hard one. Yeah sure as far as endurance, determination, and the ability to comparmentalise fear. But there's climbers (eg. Adam Ondra) who are head and shoulders above him as far as the technical difficultly of routes they can send.

My MMA pick, who I don't think has been mentioned yet is Anderson Silva. At his peak he was untouchable. Toyed with his opponents, which was ultimately probably his downfall.

I dont doubt that there are a lot of more technicaly difficult climbs, but can they be done with no ropes and equipment (apart from shoes) and with no help from others(at the climbing moment)? . Thats honnold especialty, free solo climbs. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I've seen a few people mention Maradona. He was treated like a god when I was in Argentina. It makes one wonder what he could have been if he wasn't coked out 99% of the time.

[Conflicting Thought]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

That’s largely because it’s super popular in the second largest country in the world. It would even rank as a top 10 sport here, and if you told any American that you were the best cricket player in the world, they’d pat you on the head, say “that’s cute, now try a real sport.” Seriously, bar sports are more popular here than cricket.

Then why are all of you trying to compete for the role of getting destroyed in the Olympic Finals in basketball by us?

Ugh what a chauvinistic, ignorant response

[DMC]

1 hour ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

guys like Bo Jackosn(NFL Pro-Bowler and MLB All-Star), Deion Sanders, Michael Jordan, Charlie Ward,

As someone who watched Charlie Ward fail at point guard for about a decade, it's really ludicrous to put him in this group.

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

He could no more play football than I could walk on the moon. His body is wrong. 

Well that's pretty silly.  You'd die instantly on the moon.  LeBron would just summarily kick the shit out of all the pussy ass white Europeans on the field.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

But per usual, these kind of threads evolve and take on a mind of their own, so whatever is fine at this point.

Who woulda thought that'd happen with such a broad question - especially considering the second sentence of the OP was, "There are no rules as to who you choose."

[Impmk2]

14 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

I dont doubt that there are a lot of more technicaly difficult climbs, but can they be done with no ropes and equipment (apart from shoes) and with no help from others(at the climbing moment)? . Thats honnold especialty, free solo climbs. 

I don't really think this is worth getting into an arguement over. Honnold is an amazing climber. And the el cap ascent is one of the greatest climbing achievements ever. However I stuggle to put him as the greatest climber of all time. He maps his routes, meticulously, over the course of months and years with protection, and then goes for the one perfect climb. His strength, endurance, attention to detail, and sheer willpower is incredible. But as far as raw climbing ability there's a few who I'd put above him.

Protection doesn't help as far as making a climb easier. It makes it harder. You've gotta carry a lot more, contend with rope drag, awkward clips, etc. It's the price you pay for ensuring that when you fall, you don't die.

And yes, when someone 'sends' a route that means they've done with without resting on ropes, without falling, and without any other forms of cheating to make life easier. It's just they've got protection to ensure if something does go wrong, ie they miss a hold, some rock breaks, or a bird flys out and hits them in the face they don't die, because free soloing is fucking nuts.

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think the key with football in the UK is you guys need a team for it to really take off. The ticket sales are great for the games you get and speaking honestly, we tend to send you the worst teams in the league. It's also not surprising the NFL Europe failed because the level of talent was so different. Football that isn't elite can actually be painful to watch (mainly due to QB play). It's why other leagues here have failed too.

It's also got the problem of having to compete with two long-established sports in Rugby Union and League which to a casual audience will seem fairly similar sports, they will have some of the best players in the world in those sports playing them which is likely to be more compelling than a second-rate American Football team.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I am a New Zealander, and I will cheerfully admit that Rugby Union (Rugby League even more so) is a niche sport at the international level.

But cricket? The test-playing nations are England, Australia, South Africa, the West Indies, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, and Ireland. That's a spread from Europe, to the Western Hemisphere, to Africa, to South Asia, to Australasia. Sure, it's not on a level with association football - nothing is - but it ain't tiny, and it ain't niche.

[The Marquis de Leech]

9 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Sir Ian Botham, Denis Compton to name but 2. 

I think you mean Botham's son, Liam. 

But, anyway, a wikipedia list of people who have played international-level cricket and rugby:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cricket_and_rugby_union_players

(For North American posters, calling them professionals is a bit cute though. Until 1996, Rugby Union was a strictly amateur sport at all levels, and cricket had an amateur/professional divide in the form of Gentlemen vs Players until the early 1960s).

[Ramsay B.]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Get out of here with this nonsense. Jordan was a terrible baseball player. That’s why he was not someone I considered. He’s the best basketball player ever, but his athletics failed to transition to baseball because it largely took away his best skill (jumping).

Hitting a baseball is one of the hardest things to master in sports IMO. Jordan hadn’t played since high school and out of the blue, and at the age of 31, he decided to try his hand at it. He also tried to do it at the third highest level in the US. Hitting .202 was pretty impressive to me(with 30 sb’s). MJ also had a .252 average in less talented Arizona fall league that same year.

I’m not saying he’s the best athlete ever, but his stint in baseball should definitely not be used against him.

[BigFatCoward]

4 hours ago, DMC said:

 

Well that's pretty silly.  You'd die instantly on the moon.  LeBron would just summarily kick the shit out of all the pussy ass white Europeans on the the field. 

Footballers are not 'white'. 

[BigFatCoward]

52 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

I think you mean Botham's son, Liam. 

 

Nope. 

[DMC]

26 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Footballers are not 'white'. 

Well, some of them are.  That's not the point though.  I said pussy ass white Europeans are white.  And I'm pretty sure they are.

[Which Tyler]

Why is it that these things always devolve into America Vs Not-America?

 

Why is it that Americans always have to essentially shit on things that aren't american, and they don't particularly understand?

[BigFatCoward]

4 hours ago, DMC said:

Well, some of them are.  That's not the point though.  I said pussy ass white Europeans are white.  And I'm pretty sure they are.

You implied they were all white, was stupid, and childish. 

Also being big and strong is no guarantee of being tough.  And even if he is, being thuggish is not a virtue. 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

You implied they were all white, was stupid, and childish. 

It was a joke.  Made funnier by how much it apparently bothers you.

[BigFatCoward]

12 minutes ago, DMC said:

It was a joke.  Made funnier by how much it apparently bothers you.

Jokes are funny. That was just garbage. 

[DMC]

Just now, BigFatCoward said:

Jokes are funny. That was just garbage. 

See, still funny.

[BigFatCoward]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

See, still funny.

Are you ok? 

[DMC]

8 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Are you ok? 

I'm great, how bout you?

[DMC]

3 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Why is it that Americans always have to essentially shit on things that aren't american, and they don't particularly understand?

Why is it that non-Americans on the board - almost exclusively white Europeans - routinely shit on Americans then get their panties in a bunch if there's any type of response other than "thank you sir may I have another"?  I will give you that @Tywin et al. I guess started it in this thread by shitting on cricket.  But basing all Americans on Ty is where I really take offense.