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Poll. Is Bran ever leaving the cave?


Impbread

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On 3/17/2019 at 2:37 PM, Impbread said:

If the COTF were evil they would have let bran and company die.

Not necessarily.

On 8/31/2019 at 1:57 PM, Ruki88 said:

Ah, I wish! But the actor who played Bran said that GRRM had 2 things planned for this character: the Hodor revelation and him ending up king.

Based on this info this I don't know if I should feel happy or not that GRRM might not finish the series.:dunno:

I'll humor you.

I'm with  @kissedbyfire in that it doesn't mean much at all. The Hodor reveal is likely to be so different it won't be even worth comparing. And Bran becoming king? In that case you have to ask a bunch of questions (who, what, when, where, why, how, how much and how long) and the answers to those questions will show that things are going to be very different.

Like for example: if Daenerys truly nukes King's Landing and destroys the Iron Throne (which I am 100% sure of), then that's going to make any other king to come after her look and feel completely different. So much so that it'll be hard to call them a king.

Or, another example...if Jon is crowned King of all Westeros and rules for a time (however short), then Bran's claim to the kingship automatically becomes that much more credible.

The point is that these things you mentioned are going to happen so radically different (especially given that there are so many other moving parts to take into account) that, more likely than not, they are going to feel and look like apples and potatoes.

And that's coming from a person who is okay with Bran becoming the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't see Bran leaving the cave.

The Greenseers are weak of body, short lived. And Bran is broken more than anyone. But once inside the wood they live long:

Quote

The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers.

The Greenseers live long because their flesh is slowly replaced by wood, like Bloodraven. This is the only path (route:D) for a GS:

Quote

Roots coiled around his legs like wooden serpents. One burrowed through his breeches into the desiccated flesh of his thigh, to emerge again from his shoulder. A spray of dark red leaves sprouted from his skull, and grey mushrooms spotted his brow... Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

Bran needs the same to become a greenseer. They gave him seeds to eat. They gave him a throne.

Quote

The singers made Bran a throne of his own, like the one Lord Brynden sat...Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.

This is not something bad. It is not becoming king. More like the God Emperor of Dune.

Quote

The singers of the forest had no books. No ink, no parchment, no written language. Instead they had the trees, and the weirwoods above all. When they died, they went into the wood, into leaf and limb and root, and the trees remembered. All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew about this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood.

 

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21 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I don't see Bran leaving the cave.

The Greenseers are weak of body, short lived. And Bran is broken more than anyone. But once inside the wood they live long:

The Greenseers live long because their flesh is slowly replaced by wood, like Bloodraven. This is the only path (route:D) for a GS:

Bran needs the same to become a greenseer. They gave him seeds to eat. They gave him a throne.

This is not something bad. It is not becoming king. More like the God Emperor of Dune.

 

Why mention the back door of the cave if no one is leaving? That or the underground river. Useless information unless someone is going to be leaving by one of those routes. So Hodor and the Reeds are going to stay with him in the cave? They gave him a throne to train on. Does not mean he has to stay forever. That might be the plan to have him stay forever but that plan may be derailed by the Others or Bran himself once he realizes that is the plan for him.

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4 hours ago, Impbread said:

Why mention the back door of the cave if no one is leaving?

The back door will not necessarily be used by Bran. Someone may come, Jon or Benjen, for example. Or his companions will become useless, unnecessary there. They will have to leave, to be his eyes and voice and hands outside.

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Someone has to go deep into the Lands of Always Winter where the Others originate from. I think the Heart of Winter is their seat. The only people geared up and positioned to do so are either Jon, Bran, Mel or (very unlikely) Arya. Mel might do it in Dream; if Jon ever does it, he has to do it in Winds. Once he returns to his body, he's not getting a POV again and he'll be too busy with politics and warring for exploration, discovery and mysticism.

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9 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I think Jon is the most likely to travel to the Heart of Winter. Possibly he will not be POV again. Then someone will have to follow him. Mel is the most likely. 

Neither jon nor mel could survive going to the heart of winter. Either the cold, hunger, the wights or the ww would kill them.

If anyone goes to the heart of winter it has to be bran skinchanging something.

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1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Once he returns to his body, he's not getting a POV again and he'll be too busy with politics and warring for exploration, discovery and mysticism.

I don t really agree with this. The only person that lost its pov status was cat and I think their situations are completly diferent.

Cat's story was mostly over once the starks are defeated. She stoped being involved with a major player in the game. With jon it is exactly the reverse. His story is starting now that we are focusing more on the ww. Besides the fact that he has major personal changes to go through.

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17 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I believe POV or not has more to do with GRRM needing to hide things. LSH has become a mystery, so her removal of the list of POV.
Could be the same for Jon.

But with jon there is just too much unexplored mysteries (prior to dance) and with cat that wasn t the case.

With the stark's defeat she lost most of her importance in the story… And I have no idea what great mystery there is about LSH. We know she lost part of herself and is killing people to avenge the red wedding. Both bran and mel are much more mysterious!

Even after his injuries/death in dance. I think we need to know what he experiences and how it affects him. With cat we already knew the answers to both questions.

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13 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

The back door will not necessarily be used by Bran. Someone may come, Jon or Benjen, for example. Or his companions will become useless, unnecessary there. They will have to leave, to be his eyes and voice and hands outside.

I dont think Jon or Benjen are coming in, but you could be right about Bran using his friends as his eyes and ears.

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9 hours ago, Impbread said:

I dont think Jon or Benjen are coming in, but you could be right about Bran using his friends as his eyes and ears.

I agree that neither Jon nor Benjen will be coming for Bran. In fact, I don't think anyone is coming for Bran (except maybe the WWs). I do think he'll leave the cave and somehow make it to Winterfell where if he does merge with a weirwood it will be there. I like the idea some have pointed out that perhaps the crypts of WF are connected to the underground passages in his cave... Jon will be preoccupied with the fallout at the wall and then whatever happens to the Bolton's at WF. Benjen, if we see him again, will probably pop up with Rickon and Osha and help them get back on their way to WF. While many of these theories carry weight and are loosely backed up by quotes, I haven't been convinced that the Stark kids WON'T all make it back to WF. There really is no reason for anyone to travel further north than where Bran is. 

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22 hours ago, divica said:

With the stark's defeat she lost most of her importance in the story… And I have no idea what great mystery there is about LSH.

GRRM resurrected Cat. I don't see such a thing as mundane. She is probably not important by herself now. Her resurrection possible only a point of comparison for Jon's. But her real state of mind, is she still Cat? Or something with Cat's memory? Something about her remain hidden so far. And may tell about Jon's further state.

Her story with the Starks is certainly finished. She is no more one of them. BTW, Jon, Bran and Arya are not much Starks themselves anymore. The story has moved on beyond the houses war of the beginning. 

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5 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

GRRM resurrected Cat. I don't see such a thing as mundane. She is probably not important by herself now. Her resurrection possible only a point of comparison for Jon's. But her real state of mind, is she still Cat? Or something with Cat's memory? Something about her remain hidden so far. And may tell about Jon's further state.

Her story with the Starks is certainly finished. She is no more one of them. BTW, Jon, Bran and Arya are not much Starks themselves anymore. The story has moved on beyond the houses war of the beginning. 

We know her ressurection is similar to beric's. And beric talks about the effects of being ressurected... 

With Jon even if he dies he would warg into ghost. That would make his situation completly different. 

But basically I think the important thing is that jon's story feels like it is in the beguining while cat's was at the end. To loose Jon as a pov now would make all the work invested in his pov chapters kind of pointless. Like we saw the character prepare for his moment and when it arrives we lose the pov... 

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7 hours ago, divica said:

We know her ressurection is similar to beric's. And beric talks about the effects of being ressurected...

But Cat seems less herself than Beric was. Beric was the same, but dead and converted to R'hllor. There was less and less of him. But Cat seems all gone. Anyway neither LSH nor Beric were POV. So we don't know for sure.

I would not like to loose Jon's POV. But if he is really changed by his death, some of him may remain hidden. He is the central piece of the story, but it's doesn't mean he will keep a POV.

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2 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

But Cat seems less herself than Beric was. Beric was the same, but dead and converted to R'hllor. There was less and less of him. But Cat seems all gone. Anyway neither LSH nor Beric were POV. So we don't know for sure.

I would not like to loose Jon's POV. But if he is really changed by his death, some of him may remain hidden. He is the central piece of the story, but it's doesn't mean he will keep a POV.

Beric was resurrected very shortly after dying, and still each time he was brought back, he lost a bit more of himself. Cat was resurrected days after dying. I think that explains a lot. 

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Beric was resurrected very shortly after dying, and still each time he was brought back, he lost a bit more of himself. Cat was resurrected days after dying. I think that explains a lot. 

Of course. My point was LSH is not Beric. Not Cat either. Maybe more wight, zombie than even Coldhands.

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On 9/19/2019 at 9:46 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

Someone has to go deep into the Lands of Always Winter where the Others originate from. I think the Heart of Winter is their seat. The only people geared up and positioned to do so are either Jon, Bran, Mel or (very unlikely) Arya. Mel might do it in Dream; if Jon ever does it, he has to do it in Winds. Once he returns to his body, he's not getting a POV again and he'll be too busy with politics and warring for exploration, discovery and mysticism.

But Stonesnake already went there and that is why the Others don't have a leader in the books (anymore ...).

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