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Ser Scot A Ellison

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From today's NY Times:

Footage Contradicts U.S. Claim That Maduro Burned Aid Convoy

Quote

 

The narrative seemed to fit Venezuela’s authoritarian rule: Security forces, on the order of President Nicolás Maduro, had torched a convoy of humanitarian aid as millions in his country were suffering from illness and hunger.

Vice President Mike Pence wrote that “the tyrant in Caracas danced” as his henchmen “burned food & medicine.” The State Department released a video saying Mr. Maduro had ordered the trucks burned. And Venezuela’s opposition held up the images of the burning aid, reproduced on dozens of news sites and television screens throughout Latin America, as evidence of Mr. Maduro’s cruelty.

But there is a problem: The opposition itself, not Mr. Maduro’s men, appears to have set the cargo alight accidentally.

 

Accidentally on purpose, more like. This tallies with reports of opposition goons burning supplies of food and medicine and blaming it on Maduro.

 

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24 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

From today's NY Times:

Footage Contradicts U.S. Claim That Maduro Burned Aid Convoy

Accidentally on purpose, more like. This tallies with reports of opposition goons burning supplies of food and medicine and blaming it on Maduro.

 

That’s the first I heard of any claim that the aid convoy was burned.  I do recall it being blocked by Maduro’s military though.  Or is NPR right-wing propaganda now?

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/17/695593542/venezuelas-maduro-threatens-military-force-to-block-u-s-food-aid

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1 hour ago, DMC said:

This isn't evidence that's questionable or difficult to verify, it's just time consuming.  Just look up regime changes since WWII and calculate the percentage that were US influenced with any significance.  Again, hell, just look at the elections since Chavez took power.  If the US/CIA's omnipresence was as influential as is being posited, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.

I dunno, take a grav bong hit?  I'll pack you one.

There was an atempted coup on 2002 with usa backing, they couldnt get the army on their side, it failed. Now they have another opportunity. 

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26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That’s the first I heard of any claim that the aid convoy was burned.

Hang on on a minute. You mean to tell me that something happened in the world that Scot of the USA hadn't heard about? ZOMG, help me to my fainting couch!

Quote

Contacted by The Times about the footage Saturday, a spokesman for Mr. Rubio did not address who burned the trucks, saying in a statement that “Maduro bears full responsibility for the destruction of humanitarian aid.”

 

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42 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Hang on on a minute. You mean to tell me that something happened in the world that Scot of the USA hadn't heard about? ZOMG, help me to my fainting couch!

 

Are you saying I should be paying attention to Trump Administration bullshit or Republican Senators?  Was Maduro blocking aid, or not?  Or are you going to imply NPR is shilling for the CIA, again?

From the prior thread in response to my posting two NPR articles about how Maduro is horrible:

You do realise that it wasn't food and medicine in those trucks? If it was, the US would have simply handed it over to the Red Cross.

Oh, and here's how badly stocked a supermarket in downtown Caracas was today.

Your government is lying to you again

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20 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Are you saying I should be paying attention to Trump Administration bullshit or Republican Senators?  Was Maduro blocking aid, or not?  Or are you going to imply NPR is shilling for the CIA, again?

I ignored the NPR story you linked because it's irrelevant to my post. And in all my posts I've said nothing about NPR, so stop putting fucking words in my mouth.

I've read that Maduro was blocking trucks carrying weapons. In a world of so much information and disinformation, who you gonna believe?

I found it interesting that Guaido, along with the Trump administration, are lying about incidents such as these and releasing doctored video footage to support their lies.

Don't you?

Or are you just going to ignore that and come back with some bullshit whataboutery, which seems to be par for the course with you these days?

 

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7 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

I ignored the NPR story you linked because it's irrelevant to my post. And in all my posts I've said nothing about NPR, so stop putting fucking words in my mouth.

I've read that Maduro was blocking trucks carrying weapons. In a world of so much information and disinformation, who you gonna believe?

I found it interesting that Guaido, along with the Trump administration, are lying about incidents such as these and releasing doctored video footage to support their lies.

Don't you?

Or are you just going to ignore that and come back with some bullshit whataboutery, which seems to be par for the course with you these days?

 

I think Maduro is a crazyman desperate to oppress anyone who questions his regime, hence the explusion of the and conficscation of the recording equipment of the Univision reporting team he had agreed to interview with (the leader of the team is a vocal critic of President Trump). As such I question the veracity of his press releases.

ETA:

And in response to my two NPR stories you said “Your government is lieing to you, again”.  How does that not imply NPR is shilling for the US Government?

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1 hour ago, Conflicting Thought said:

There was an atempted coup on 2002 with usa backing, they couldnt get the army on their side, it failed. Now they have another opportunity. 

This has been discussed, and obviously it failed.  Since 1998, there have been elections, which are very clear opportunities, in 2000, 2006, 2012, 2013, and then the boycotted one last year.

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21 minutes ago, DMC said:

This has been discussed, and obviously it failed.  Since 1998, there have been elections, which are very clear opportunities, in 2000, 2006, 2012, 2013, and then the boycotted one last year.

They where not clear opportunities cuz until 2013 Chavez was alive and had a lot of support in and out of Venezuela, there wasnt enough of a crisis for the US to take advantage of. That changed with Maduro. 

And i bring the attempted coup as an example of very recent US intervention in Venezuela. 

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37 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

And in response to my two NPR stories you said “Your government is lieing to you, again”.  How does that not imply NPR is shilling for the US Government?

You are so full of shit, Scot. Sadly, one has to assume it is deliberate.

Here is the post where I said that. It is most definitely not in response to any NPR story you may or may not have linked.

Once again, stop putting words in my fucking mouth.

And I'm still waiting for your half-assed justification for Guaido releasing doctored video footage to support his lies about burning aid convoys.

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29 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

You are so full of shit, Scot. Sadly, one has to assume it is deliberate.

Here is the post where I said that. It is most definitely not in response to any NPR story you may or may not have linked.

Once again, stop putting words in my fucking mouth.

And I'm still waiting for your half-assed justification for Guaido releasing doctored video footage to support his lies about burning aid convoys.

I’m not going to offer it.  I’ve said for two threads now Venezuala needs new free and fair elections not Guaido propped up as insta-President.

None of this makes Maduro any less of a dictator playing games to preserve his own power.

And for the record this was my full post, that your quote was responding to:

Quote

Did Allende arrest and expel foreign journalists first invited to Chile to interview Allende?

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/698093977/venezuela-expels-univision-team

Did Allende refuse to allow foreign aid into Chile while Chilieans starved?

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/08/692698637/humanitarian-aid-arrives-for-venezuela-but-maduro-blocks-it

Did millions of people flee Allende’s Chile because of Allende’s policies?

If not then Maduro is nothing like Allende.[/quote]

My documentation was two NPR stories nothing from the US Government and you tell me that “Your government has been lieing to you, again”.

Please explain how your statement in response to the post I quote above doesn’t call NPR’s credibility into question?

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17 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Please explain how your statement in response to the post I quote above doesn’t call NPR’s credibility into question?

Misunderstanding. I didn't even read those stories. I was responding to your comment on Allende and foreign aid, and quoted nothing from those pieces. Anyway, apologies. And for the record, I have zero opinion on NPR, having never read them before today.

I'm really disappointed with your hand-waving of Guaido's doctoring of video footage. I mean, if I was in court, on a jury, and the prosecution presented evidence that was later shown to have been fabricated, it would be very difficult to trust anything they had said. I would have to ask myself why are they lying? And if they're lying about this, what else is bullshit?

 

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26 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Misunderstanding. I didn't even read those stories. I was responding to your comment on Allende and foreign aid, and quoted nothing from those pieces. Anyway, apologies. And for the record, I have zero opinion on NPR, having never read them before today.

I'm really disappointed with your hand-waving of Guaido's doctoring of video footage. I mean, if I was in court, on a jury, and the prosecution presented evidence that was later shown to have been fabricated, it would be very difficult to trust anything they had said. I would have to ask myself why are they lying? And if they're lying about this, what else is bullshit?

 

Fair enough.  Based on the stories I’m hearing from credible news sources I think Maduro is dangerous.  I think, again, based on those stories he values his own power and position above the people he purports to lead.  

I’m not hand waving Guaido.  I’m saying regardless of who wins Venezualans deserve real elections.

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The question for me isn't what should happen with Guaido now that he's been exposed as doctoring the videos and presented them as false evidence of effectively a crime against humanity. But whether the likes of Bolton and Rubio were duped or complicit in this false accusation? And what should happen with that?

I also don't think people should be ignoring the fact that the American left / non-rightwing MSM (which is centre right by any global metric, with a few individual exceptions), have been significant critics of Chavez / Maduro. So the possibility of NPR happily parroting information painting Venezuela in a bad light without doing sufficient fact checking should not be outside the realms of possibility. I've no idea if they have, but the possibility of it should not be cast aside merely because they aren't right-wing Trump shills. Or rather the assertion that they aren't right-wing govt shills should not be put forth or accepted as an argument that NPR can't be wrong or even biased in its reporting on Venezuela.

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5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The question for me isn't what should happen with Guaido now that he's been exposed as doctoring the videos and presented them as false evidence of effectively a crime against humanity. But whether the likes of Bolton and Rubio were duped or complicit in this false accusation? And what should happen with that?

I also don't think people should be ignoring the fact that the American left / non-rightwing MSM (which is centre right by any global metric, with a few individual exceptions), have been significant critics of Chavez / Maduro. So the possibility of NPR happily parroting information painting Venezuela in a bad light without doing sufficient fact checking should not be outside the realms of possibility. I've no idea if they have, but the possibility of it should not be cast aside merely because they aren't right-wing Trump shills. Or rather the assertion that they aren't right-wing govt shills should not be put forth or accepted as an argument that NPR can't be wrong or even biased in its reporting on Venezuela.

AT,

What is factually incorrect about the two stories I linked in the prior thread?  I’m happy to examine NPR for potential bias but I’d like that bias to be demonstrated.  I’ve been pretty busy this weekend and didn’t listen to Morning Edition or All Things Considered so I have no idea what they said about Guaido over the weekend. 

I also don’t understand the focus on Guaido and his actions as though he is the totality of the Venezualan opposition to Maduro and his Regime.  He’s not there are plenty of people in Venezuala opposed to Maduro who are not tied to Guaido.  

This is the most recent story I could find on NPR.  It makes no mention of a burning convoy.  It talks about the blackout and the massive demonstrations in Caracas in opposition to Maduro made all the more interesting because of the difficulties in getting to the demonstration with the blackout ongoing:

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/09/701926199/as-venezuelas-blackout-drags-on-protesters-fill-the-streets-of-caracas

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1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

AT,

What is factually incorrect about the two stories I linked in the prior thread?  I’m happy to examine NPR for potential bias but I’d like that bias to be demonstrated.  I’ve been pretty busy this weekend and didn’t listen to Morning Edition or All Things Considered so I have no idea what they said about Guaido over the weekend. 

I also don’t understand the focus on Guaido and his actions as though he is the totality of the Venezualan opposition to Maduro and his Regime.  He’s not there are plenty of people in Venezuala opposed to Maduro who are not tied to Guaido.  

This is the most recent story I could find on NPR.  It makes no mention of a burning convoy.  It talks about the blackout and the massive demonstrations in Caracas in opposition to Maduro made all the more interesting because of the difficulties in getting to the demonstration with the blackout ongoing:

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/09/701926199/as-venezuelas-blackout-drags-on-protesters-fill-the-streets-of-caracas

I an't said nothing about the veracity of NPRs reporting. I'm just pointing out that saying "they aren't right wing Trump shills" isn't a defence of anyone's virtue on Venezuela reporting, because it's not just the right wing shills who are into doing takedowns of Venezuela or being defensive or dismissive of US and other foreign influences in what's happened with Venezuela.

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I an't said nothing about the veracity of NPRs reporting. I'm just pointing out that saying "they aren't right wing Trump shills" isn't a defence of anyone's virtue on Venezuela reporting, because it's not just the right wing shills who are into doing takedowns of Venezuela or being defensive or dismissive of US and other foreign influences in what's happened with Venezuela.

So. if you aren’t going to claim NPR is biased, why are you raising the point that NPR... might be... biased?

To use the kinder idiom, “fish or cut bait”.

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3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I also don’t understand the focus on Guaido and his actions as though he is the totality of the Venezualan opposition to Maduro and his Regime.  He’s not there are plenty of people in Venezuala opposed to Maduro who are not tied to Guaido.  

Yes, and one of them, Henri Falcon, a non-white former Chavista, was threatened with personal financial sanctions by the US government when he announced his intention to stand in the election. Hmmm....

The US do not want free and fair elections. Why? Because their man will not win, and Venezuelan oil will remain owned by Venezuela, not US oil companies.

 

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33 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Yes, and one of them, Henri Falcon, a non-white former Chavista, was threatened with personal financial sanctions by the US government when he announced his intention to stand in the election. Hmmm....

The US do not want free and fair elections. Why? Because their man will not win, and Venezuelan oil will remain owned by Venezuela, not US oil companies.

 

Well, I (who have never been a supporter of the current US Administration) want to see free and fair elections in Venezuala regardless of who would win such an election.  I want to see Maduro face the voters without Maduro having the ability to play games with the process or results.

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4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Well, I (who have never been a supporter of the current US Administration) want to see free and fair elections in Venezuala regardless of who would win such an election.

Yes, so do I. But let's stop pretending that the US Government wants the same. 

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