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International thread 2


Ser Scot A Ellison

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Hope there is no casualty (all the island was evacuated). You can't imagine how sorrowful I feel. The videos of the spire collapsing are horrible. Can you imagine that a part of the roof was 700 years old?

I don't know how often I went in this place to have a look of its wonders, to rest, to pray...I remember when I read Notre-dame de Paris when I was a teenager, in the novel Notre-Dame was a full-blown character, like an old wise and silent lady...

 

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Sad to see this happening to a beautiful building which has a very important place in the European history... 

Known it from the time I was child... :crying: 

 

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Speculation of arson just refusing to go away, with some architecture scholars saying it's gone up too quickly for accident (primary theory is still sparking from the renovations).

 

I hadn't realised that there had been other arson attacks on French churches recently.

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16 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Speculation of arson just refusing to go away, with some architecture scholars saying it's gone up too quickly for accident (primary theory is still sparking from the renovations).

 

I hadn't realised that there had been other arson attacks on French churches recently.

I heard numbers of three each day.

 

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10 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Speculation of arson just refusing to go away, with some architecture scholars saying it's gone up too quickly for accident (primary theory is still sparking from the renovations).

 

I hadn't realised that there had been other arson attacks on French churches recently.

I would be interested in reading the analysis of the scholars; do you have a link to provide?

I must admit that I'm not fond of early theories, so I'm a little bit wary: from the beginning, I read too many queasy and undefensible comments, based on nothing, which:

- pretend that ISIS is obviously behind that (it did not claim responsability);

- say that it's a plot of Macron to make people forget the Yellow Vests protests (he was about to give a speech on TV dealing with the Yellow Vests crisis and posponed it to come with the firemen);

- clame that even if Macron did not scratch himself the match, it's still entirelly his fault (lack of means provided to our firemen, poor quality of the safety of the on-going renovation of the roof...)

- compare the collapse of the spire to the collapse of the Catholicism in France and to the rise of the Muslims (if I was Muslim I would be facepalming myself reading that), so it's a kind of sign of God;

- state that they don't care because we cant' afford to shed tears on a bunch of old stones whereas people are killed everyday in so many war.

I did not read conspiracy theory involving aliens and Illuminatis but I'm sure someone has already written it somewhere in Twitter.

Let's wait for the enquiry and mourn the old lady of stone, that's all we can do right now. :(

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I've been mostly on BBC news live, rather than anything written.

I've also not seen any speculation on reason behind any arson, just voices saying it's gone up too quickly, and linking to many other recent arson attacks on French churches.

 

I absolutely agree that we really shouldn't read anything into cause until the flames are out, investigators can investigate, and experts can out some time into their interpretations and find a consensus.

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23 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I heard numbers of three each day. 

It seems huge; I would say one fire each three days, with a small portion of willfully fires. I'm trying to find official assessments. 

Anyway, yes arson attacks against churchs exist and are increasing. Last 18 March another beautiful church in Paris (Saint-Sulpice) was attacked but only the gate was damaged. I can help myself to think to a willfully act, me too...But I prefer to wait.

Which Tyler: thanks for your answer; indeed the fire started quickly.

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I recognize this as a great tragedy literally on a historic scale and it's shocking. However it's the people that are hurting, who this landmark has meant something so important to them all their lives, my heart goes out to you.

I'm so sorry.

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17 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

I recognize this as a great tragedy literally on a historic scale and it's shocking. However it's the people that are hurting, who this landmark has meant something so important to them all their lives, my heart goes out to you.

I'm so sorry.

Thanks Drawcabi!

Right now smoke is rising from the north tower; all the wood frame collapsed. The treasure and the relics are safe; the XIIth century stain-glassed windows are likely lost.

Drone picture of the ablaze roof:

https://twitter.com/alex_fremont/status/1117883912632430593/photo/1

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As a primary world class tourist attraction, millions of people now living feel a personal sense of connection and loss to this jewel of architecture.

Not to try to draw any parallels beyond that millions feel a personal connection to Note Dame because they have visited it, this was the sense I got here too, about the Towers, after 9/11.  Millions had visited the Towers and felt a personal connection.

Anyone who believes history in and of itself has value even beyond knowledge that informs our present can only feel devastated.

 

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3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

As a primary world class tourist attraction, millions of people now living feel a personal sense of connection and loss to this jewel of architecture.

Not to try to draw any parallels beyond that millions feel a personal connection to Note Dame because they have visited it, this was the sense I got here too, about the Towers, after 9/11.  Millions had visited the Towers and felt a personal connection.

Anyone who believes history in and of itself has value even beyond knowledge that informs our present can only feel devastated.

 

Very well said.

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Reuters is quoting a firefighter spokesman that they believe they've saved the towers and the main stone structure of the cathedral from collapse. Hopefully that's true, and that there will be a frame to rebuild from.

Also, because of the ongoing restoration work a lot of the art that could've been destroyed by the fire was not present. Apparently just yesterday several statues had been removed from the spire.

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So incredibly sad about Notre-Dame.  And to watch it live as it burns just makes it even worse I think.  Its one thing to hear about the loss of something.  But to watch in real time be destroyed and come apart like that is just horrible.  Especially when at first you hear about it and think, oh perhaps it won't be too bad, surely they will put that fire out, to then seeing the spire come down and realize that is not the case. 

At the same time, its somewhat morbidly fascinating to see all the articles and videos that are making the rounds in light of the fire detailing the structure and construction of the building and the inside of the roof with all the wooden structure.  It's been a long time since I was last in Notre-Dame but I could remember the stone vaulted ceiling inside and I was wondering what was above that stone ceiling, that could possibly be burning.  So interesting to learn about that as well as a number of posts from fire fighters about how fire would spread in these open above ceiling areas.  Sorry it takes an event like this to bring all this information to light.

It's amazing when you think of everything this structure has lived through and how old it is.  Surviving WWI, WWII, and the French Revolution.  And to think construction on the cathedral began in the reign of a King who was once married to Eleanor of Aquitaine.

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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

As a primary world class tourist attraction, millions of people now living feel a personal sense of connection and loss to this jewel of architecture.

Not to try to draw any parallels beyond that millions feel a personal connection to Note Dame because they have visited it, this was the sense I got here too, about the Towers, after 9/11.  Millions had visited the Towers and felt a personal connection.

Anyone who believes history in and of itself has value even beyond knowledge that informs our present can only feel devastated.

 

You summed up my feelings exactly.

I've never had the opportunity to go to Paris.

I have been to NYC many times, been to the World Trade Center, ate at the Windows of the World restaurant. 9/11 hit me hard in so many ways. This is devastating for me to see, but more than that it's summoning my sympathy and empathy for those who's connection are even closer to this tragedy.

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With the first photos coming out, it looks like things aren't nearly as bad as it could be. ETA; By which I mean, it's still a catastrophic tragedy, but at least not a total loss.

Other shots have shown that the roof is basically gone, and firefighters have said the upper stained glass windows melted. But it appears that at least parts of the ground floor were essentially untouched.

 

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