Jump to content
Arthur Peres

How much loyalty or influence does Mace Tyrell hold over his vassal lords?

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The thing is, it's Mace's actions that we see and it's his greed that we see, not his bannermen. So far, for the most part his bannermen are following his lead. He was named master of ships, given Brightwater Keep, and now he is Hand of the King. The more he gets, the more he wants.

Mace rose against Joffrey who for all intents and purposes was his rightful king and supported a rebel instead. When Renly died, he went back to Joffrey whose bastardy had been outed by Stannis. And when he died, he insisted that his meal ticket daughter be married to Tommen. 

I don't know how this makes him less greedy than his bannermen. 

That said, did you ever wonder what Mace knows and when he knew whatever he knows? He may not have known a thing about Aegon or Jon Connington, but the rumors about Dany in Qarth started reaching King's Landing early in ASoS and by the time AFfC's prologue rolls around, the person who is giving us all the information (and accurate information at that) about the dragons' hatching is Lazy Leo, who so happens to be Mace Tyrell's cousin in a city that is ruled by his in-laws. 

And if he knew about these stories, then he's either a complete idiot or an evil genius. 

I did put it wrong. The difference between Mace and his bannnermen is their kind of greed 

Mace is greedy after prestige. He wants to wed Margaery to a king because his grandchild would be a king. Honestly, imo he would take the position of the Hand of the King even if he couldnt decide anything.

The reach nobles want power and thats why they arent happy about the Lannister-Tyrell alliance,because if the Reach would be have put Renly on the throne they could have even more power. Thats why Mace needs to give them more such powerful positions.

Edited by Karneol
Clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Karneol said:

The reach nobles want power and thats why they arent happy about the Lannister-Tyrell alliance,because if the Reach would be independent they could have even more power. Thats why Mace needs to give them more such powerful positions.

I doubt that the Reach Lords want independence.

The Reach seems to be the regeion that benefit the most out of the unification of Westeros. No more Ironborn raids, Stormlords, Westerlands wars also ceased and when they fought the dornish they had more allies, and now even that is out of picture.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Karneol said:

I know its not the main question but do you really think Theon has at least one powerful supporter on the Iron Islands?

No.

However, according to the laws and customs of the Ironborn, the (male) heir of the previous king absolutely has to be present for the Kingsmoot. If he loses, then he loses. But if he is not there, the results from the Kingsmoot can be automatically invalidated. Meaning that there would have to be yet ANOTHER Kingsmoot. Meaning that Euron will no longer be king once Theon shows back up and makes his claim.

Euron is not yet powerful enough to take over the world with just "20 good men," much less all by himself. He needs the Ironborn behind him nd he'll likely need the resources that Oldtown provides. So, he's going to have to stop whatever he's doing, go back to Old Wyk and deal with Theon and Asha.

This is another reason why the Hightowers won't be destroyed: they'll get saved by the bell.

4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

That said, did you ever wonder what Mace knows and when he knew whatever he knows? He may not have known a thing about Aegon or Jon Connington, but the rumors about Dany in Qarth started reaching King's Landing early in ASoS and by the time AFfC's prologue rolls around, the person who is giving us all the information (and accurate information at that) about the dragons' hatching is Lazy Leo, who so happens to be Mace Tyrell's cousin in a city that is ruled by his in-laws. 

And if he knew about these stories, then he's either a complete idiot or an evil genius. 

I do. I wonder all the time. A lot of the really powerful characters in Westeros have their heads in the sand. They either a) don't pay attention to anything unless it has a clear and direct impact on themselves or b) ignorant because they are being deliberating kept in the dark. Cersei, the idiot she is, is the worst example of this.

That's part of the reason why I like Arianne so much. Arianne is unusual in that she pays attention to everything. Probably a little too much seeing that most of the information she receives and relies upon is outdated, completely taken out of context or just flat-out wrong. So, I say it's safe to say that Arianne is the most modern character in the series. Fake news indeed.

Should be interesting once she gets into King's Landing and starts playing the game with people like Varys who -- I am -- lies a lot more than we think he does.

But back to Mace: I think Mace is well aware of the stories revolving around Daenerys and her dragons. He just doesn't care. He likely doesn't have a high opinion of a orphan girl on the other side of the world with no army regardless of her title. Remember, while both sexes can pose a threat, males are seen as more dangerous and more potent than females.

On top of that, once they have gotten word she sacked two cities and won over the Unsullied, there is no reason to believe she intends to come for Westeros. 8,000+ soldiers just means that many more ships she has to buy and maintain. As a matter of fact, any fears that they might have had have been assuaged by her almost-impulsive decision to stay in Meereen. The fact that she appears to have abandoned her seat and her army for the Dothraki Sea (she is already rumored to have died) is going to make them even less concerned.

And then, need I also remind you that the very last dragons never grew larger than the size of a small house-cat. And the dragon's temperament was also likely the same as a housecat. So, news of dragons is unlikely to cause a stir. When people think of dragons, they are thinking of Ser Pounce with scales and bat-like wings not Balerion the Black Dread. That's why whenever people actually see Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion, they freak out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

But 3I thought allowing the independence of the Ironborn was Tywin's idea.

Tywin mocked Balon proposition and said that it was better doing nothing because balon was idiot that alread had given then all that he could. Tywin even says that they should Balon suffer a northem winter and that the northems themselfs would kick him out of there.

"King Balon’s longships are occupied for the nonce,” Lord Tywin said politely, “as are we. Greyjoy demands half the kingdom as the price of alliance, but what will he do to earn it? Fight the Starks? He is doing that already. Why should we pay for what he has given us for free?”

“Balon Greyjoy thinks in terms of plunder, not rule. Let him enjoy an autumn crown and suffer a northern winter. He will give his subjects no cause to love him. Come spring, the northmen will have had a bellyful of krakens.”

Mace also underestimate the Golden Company too much.

"What victories has he ever won that we should fear him? He could have ended Robert's Rebellion at Stoney Sept. He failed. Just as the Golden Company has always failed. Some may rush to join them, aye. The realm is well rid of such fools."

The way I see, Mace is about to bite something bigger than his mouth, and he will pay for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

I doubt that the Reach Lords want independence.

They dont want independence. They want power.

If Renly would have won they only had to share the key positions with a few Sormlanders.

But Renly died and the Tyrells are allied with the Lannisters and we see the   quarrels around the key positions in the AFfC and DwD

Edited by Karneol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2019 at 11:01 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

True.

Asking the question of what does Mace Tyrell wants is a waste of time. The better question to ask is what doesn't Mace Tyrell want.

But 3I thought allowing the independence of the Ironborn was Tywin's idea.

True. But you can still say that it was a short-term positive development, no matter how short-term it was.

The Freys and the Boltons are finished by the end of The Winds of Winter. But the Lannisters will die a slow, painful death in The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring.

I never noticed the Blackfyre parallel until you brought it up. Interesting.

Let me put it this way: Tarly won't stay true to the Tyrells because there will not be anything to stay true to. One thing I noticed about Robert's Rebellion is that the Reach fought long and hard for the the Targaryens even after the Battle of the Trident and the Sack of King's Landing. Unlike Dorne (which was prepared to fight until the bitter end), the Reach only stopped fighting because there was no point anymore. The last three Targaryens -- a weakened, post-partum woman, a boy and a newborn -- were cornered and besieged on Dragonstone with no allies. Those three against a young man in his prime who has the overwhelming support of five regions? As far as a reasonable person could tell, they were doomed.

No they aren't in good shape. They are in a similar situation the North is in except the Tyrells have spread themselves much more thinner than the Starks ever did and the Tyrells don't have the thousands and thousands of years of goodwill and strength that the Starks have. No one is going to be doing for the Tyrells what the northerners are doing for the Starks.

The Hightowers have a fighting chance. I can see either:

  • Euron being thrown back into the sea and/or killed by the Hightowers
  • The return of Theon and the calling of another Kingsmoot forcing Euron to postpone his takeover of Oldtown
  • Euron winning (after a hard-fought battle) and taking control of Oldtown

There are two Dornish armies to worry about right now. There's the one in the Boneway and the one in the Prince's Pass. The Boneway takes you northeast through the Stormlands, the Prince's Pass takes you northwest into the Reach. The Boneway army is the one that's going to go with Aegon and Arianne.

Not that it will matter. Aegon will probably face some more obstacles in the Stormlands but, personally, I think that Aegon is going to end up strolling through the gates right on up to the Red Keep. The schemes and shenanigans of Cersei and the Tyrells are going to piss the people of King's Landing so much that they will basically be begging Aegon to come. The Faith Militant might make a back door deal with the Dornish by way of Tyene. And Nymeria and Varys are likely to rub salt in some festering wounds.

I don't think the Prince's Pass army will march any time soon. If they do, they will be there to either police the pro-Tyrell (or rather, anti-Dornish) lords or they will be there to help clean up the mess the Ironborn made.

I don't see how we are disagreeing...

We pretty much agree the Hightower vs Ironborn battle is a wash, if anything advantage Hightower.

I acknowledge Mace is walking into a defeat at Storm's End, but the Dornish won't make a difference in that. After the SE battle, as you yourself mention, Aegon seems likely to consolidate his power in the Stormlands first which will take some time...so if Arianne decides to bring the Dornish into the fray, it could't plausibly be until after SE battle and it's aftermath.

I'm not 100% on Aegon/Arianne but it looks likely and doesn't change too much (as I just noticed you yourself pointed out.) 

Cersei was stripped naked and walk of shamed across the city, Margaery had a mob of people clamoring for her release...King Bread rules alone, and people remember who fed AND saved the city.

Tyene and Nymeria just got to KL (at best). They also (somewhat) have bigger fish to fry then the Tyrells. Lannisters, Robert Strong*, Quentyn's whereabouts, Dany intel, Aegon. 

Lastly, what you said about Tarly is ultimately why I believe the Tyrells will make it out in good shape (which I never said in my last post btw). The Tyrells two signature moves throughout history seem to be:

1.) Join winning side

2.) Take ball, go home

The Lannisters are a sinking ship and everyone knows it at this point, including the Tyrells. Their self preservation highly outweighs their ambition so expect them to... tend to their own gardens...I'll see myself out...

*(One of the top 5 things i'm pumped about next book is Nym and Ty's reaction to FrankenGregor walking around. They are going to be PISSED! Guessing that's how Tommen dies...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Karneol said:

The reach nobles want power and thats why they arent happy about the Lannister-Tyrell alliance,because if the Reach would be independent they could have even more power. Thats why Mace needs to give them more such powerful positions.

I disagree with this. We simply don't know what the Reachmen want. As far as we know, the only House that's still on Stannis's side is House Florent and even then, it's really difficult to gauge how on board with him they are.

So far, for the most part, they have followed Mace, no questions asked. The only Reach lord we see take advantage of a situation is Randyll Tarly when he marries Dickon off to Eleanor Mooton. 

And as far as positions of power go, Kevan Lannister in his last chapter tells us that Mace is now Hand, Randyll Tarly is master of laws and Paxter Redwyne is master of ships. So that's three men from the Reach in government positions, with Mace having reaped the most powerful position in the small council. And Mace is looking to replace Harys Swyft with Garth the Gross as master of coin.

In a lot of ways, he seems to be trying to tear the Lannister power down. But I think it's to his benefit and his alone.

11 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

But back to Mace: I think Mace is well aware of the stories revolving around Daenerys and her dragons. He just doesn't care. He likely doesn't have a high opinion of a orphan girl on the other side of the world with no army regardless of her title. Remember, while both sexes can pose a threat, males are seen as more dangerous and more potent than females.

I think it's interesting to see the way Doran has used his information (which he must have had sometime at the end of ACoK) vs what Mace has done with it. And yes, I acknowledge that Doran had a lot more at stake (and it does make me wonder what he was going to do with Myrcella. He like everyone else knows of her parentage) and he also has ties to Essos, so there's that.

Part of me wonders if his insistence that Marge marries Tommen is because he knows the marriage will not be consummated for sometime and that he can get her out of it with an annulment. That was without counting on Cersei's scheme, though. 

11 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

As a matter of fact, any fears that they might have had have been assuaged by her almost-impulsive decision to stay in Meereen. The fact that she appears to have abandoned her seat and her army for the Dothraki Sea (she is already rumored to have died) is going to make them even less concerned.

The way he speaks in the last chapter of ADwD makes me take pause. And then Kevan in his thoughts says that the Tyrells continued to help the Targaryens even after the death of Aerys. So I do wonder what kind of help was given Viserys and Dany. I think it came in the form of the ship that helped sailed them away from Dragonstone after the Targaryen fleet was smashed during that storm.

So the whole "she's mad like her father," may not be as sincere as we're supposed to think it is. 

11 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

 And then, need I also remind you that the very last dragons never grew larger than the size of a small house-cat. And the dragon's temperament was also likely the same as a housecat. So, news of dragons is unlikely to cause a stir. When people think of dragons, they are thinking of Ser Pounce with scales and bat-like wings not Balerion the Black Dread. That's why whenever people actually see Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion, they freak out.

That's fair enough point. But common sense or at least, my common sense is that if you hear a rumor enough times, that maybe it should be verified. I would also like to point out that sailors have played a very important role in the dissemination of information so far. And Paxter Redwyne has ships that travel across the narrow sea to Essos. So his sailors could easily be bringing that information back with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The way he speaks in the last chapter of ADwD makes me take pause. And then Kevan in his thoughts says that the Tyrells continued to help the Targaryens even after the death of Aerys. So I do wonder what kind of help was given Viserys and Dany. I think it came in the form of the ship that helped sailed them away from Dragonstone after the Targaryen fleet was smashed during that storm.

 

I think this was more of a reference that the Tyrells keeped the siege at Storm's end even after KL fall, and only lift it when Eddard showed up with his army.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

So far, for the most part, they have followed Mace, no questions asked. The only Reach lord we see take advantage of a situation is Randyll Tarly when he marries Dickon off to Eleanor Mooton. 

And as far as positions of power go, Kevan Lannister in his last chapter tells us that Mace is now Hand, Randyll Tarly is master of laws and Paxter Redwyne is master of ships. So that's three men from the Reach in government positions, with Mace having reaped the most powerful position in the small council. And Mace is looking to replace Harys Swyft with Garth the Gross as master of coin.

They dont ask questions because they get those key positions.

6 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

In a lot of ways, he seems to be trying to tear the Lannister power down. But I think it's to his benefit and his alone.

I think its very intersting to ask why he wants these things and why he does this things:  

Quote

Tut-tut, says my son, don't you want your sweetling to be queen? You Starks were kings once, the Arryns and the Lannisters as well, and even the Baratheons through the female line, but the Tyrells were no more than stewards until Aegon the Dragon came along and cooked the rightful King of the Reach on the Field of Fire. If truth be told, even our claim to Highgarden is a bit dodgy, just as those dreadful Florents are always whining. 'What does it matter?' you ask, and of course it doesn't, except to oafs like my son. The thought that one day he may see his grandson with his arse on the Iron Throne makes Mace puff up like . . . now, what do you call it? 

I think Mace main agenda is not to tear the Lannisters down but to overshine them. He would rather have all this positions but be controlled Lennister loyalists than tear all Lannister influence out with the risk of losing all his respect. 

And this will be probably his downfall because once his bannermen discover that he is a wimp and all the honors he and they have are empty they will not be happy (especially Tarly)

Or how did it Olenna say:

Quote

"A great oaf," said the Queen of Thorns. "His father was an oaf as well. My husband, the late Lord Luthor. Oh, I loved him well enough, don't mistake me. A kind man, and not unskilled in the bedchamber, but an appalling oaf all the same. He managed to ride off a cliff whilst hawking. They say he was looking up at the sky and paying no mind to where his horse was taking him.

"And now my oaf son is doing the same, only he's riding a lion instead of a palfrey. It is easy to mount a lion and not so easy to get off, I warned him, but he only chuckles. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Mace Tyrell is quite the dreamer, I give him that. But soon, he's going to be in for a rude wake up call.

Personally, I think Cersei's going to do something drastic that will completely destroy the Tyrell investments in King's Landing. Which, predictably, will backfire horribly. 

On 3/16/2019 at 10:37 PM, Arthur Peres said:

Tywin mocked Balon proposition and said that it was better doing nothing because balon was idiot that alread had given then all that he could. Tywin even says that they should Balon suffer a northem winter and that the northems themselfs would kick him out of there.

"King Balon’s longships are occupied for the nonce,” Lord Tywin said politely, “as are we. Greyjoy demands half the kingdom as the price of alliance, but what will he do to earn it? Fight the Starks? He is doing that already. Why should we pay for what he has given us for free?”

“Balon Greyjoy thinks in terms of plunder, not rule. Let him enjoy an autumn crown and suffer a northern winter. He will give his subjects no cause to love him. Come spring, the northmen will have had a bellyful of krakens.”

Okay. So Balon is a moron that would have simply been better off using Theon and Asha to forge strong alliances with the mainland houses; houses that would have been much more supportive of his ambitions.

Still Tywin is a terrible person. Why would you want huge swathes of your kingdom to be broken and trashed? Like we aren't even talking about houses and politics. We are talking about the wholesale destruction of arable land and finite resources and the massacre of the civilians who work and refine said land and resources. And it's completely avoidable.

He's so much of a spiteful person he's willing to ruin the legacy of his own House and that of his grandchildren over personal slights and military losses.

 

Edited by Jabar of House Titan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Karneol said:

They dont ask questions because they get those key positions.

Only two of his bannermen got key positions. Paxter Redwyne who is Mace's BFF, brother-in-law and a blood relation and Randyll Tarly who most people think is about to bite the hand that feeds him. Even when we look at the rewards received after the Battle of Blackwater, the two Houses who reaped the most benefit were Mace Tyrell with Brightwater Keep and Paxter Redwyne who received a 30 year remission of taxes on his wine (the best vintages, I think).

17 hours ago, Karneol said:

I think its very intersting to ask why he wants these things and why he does this things:  

Varys and Ned had this conversation in the first book and Varys tells Ned this;

"You did not trust me?" Ned as frankly astonished.
"The Red Keep shelters two sorts of people, Lord Eddard," Varys said. "Those who are loyal to the realm, and those who are loyal only to themselves. [snip]." (Eddard VII, AGoT 30)

I am more than willing to give the characters the benefit of the doubt. We're not in their heads, so we don't know what they are thinking, but so far Mace Tyrell comes off as a self-serving man who has used his 14 year old daughter as a bargaining chip to get himself into a position of power. Let's not forget Renly going to Ned with a portrait of her and asking him if he thought she resembled Lyanna and the scheming to bring her to King's Landing and wave her in front of Robert before he died.

I think it's just time to agree to disagree on this.

20 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

I think this was more of a reference that the Tyrells keeped the siege at Storm's end even after KL fall, and only lift it when Eddard showed up with his army.

This is the quote;

"As mad as her father," declared Lord Mace Tyrell.
That would be the same father that Highgarden and House Tyrell supported to the bitter end and well beyond. (Epilogue, ADWD)

Bitter end and well beyond. My personal interpretation is that the support continued after the siege of Storm's End. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Varys and Ned had this conversation in the first book and Varys tells Ned this;

"You did not trust me?" Ned as frankly astonished.
"The Red Keep shelters two sorts of people, Lord Eddard," Varys said. "Those who are loyal to the realm, and those who are loyal only to themselves. [snip]." (Eddard VII, AGoT 30)

I am more than willing to give the characters the benefit of the doubt. We're not in their heads, so we don't know what they are thinking, but so far Mace Tyrell comes off as a self-serving man who has used his 14 year old daughter as a bargaining chip to get himself into a position of power. Let's not forget Renly going to Ned with a portrait of her and asking him if he thought she resembled Lyanna and the scheming to bring her to King's Landing and wave her in front of Robert before he died.

I think it's just time to agree to disagree on this.

I never said or meant that Tyrell is the person who is most loyal to the realm rather than himself. I just find it very intressting that Mace goals are more about making House Tyrell look powerful than go the hard way and actually work on becoming one. 

2 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Only two of his bannermen got key positions. Paxter Redwyne who is Mace's BFF, brother-in-law and a blood relation and Randyll Tarly who most people think is about to bite the hand that feeds him. Even when we look at the rewards received after the Battle of Blackwater, the two Houses who reaped the most benefit were Mace Tyrell with Brightwater Keep and Paxter Redwyne who received a 30 year remission of taxes on his wine (the best vintages, I think).

Because Tarly, Hightower and Redwyne are (as it looks like) the three most powerful bannermen of the reach. Of course he needs to secure them mire advantages than smaller and less powerful houses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Okay. So Balon is a moron that would have simply been better off using Theon and Asha to forge strong alliances with the mainland houses; houses that would have been much more supportive of his ambitions.

 

I agree very much with this. Balon is a complete idiot.

 

11 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

 Still Tywin is a terrible person. Why would you want huge swathes of your kingdom to be broken and trashed? Like we aren't even talking about houses and politics. We are talking about the wholesale destruction of arable land and finite resources and the massacre of the civilians who work and refine said land and resources. And it's completely avoidable.

 

I agree, he even mentions Mance Ryder as a potention ally later on but...

The north and the Iron Islands in theory are "independent" he does not have to protect any of them. Also, I don't think he was in any condition of sending help to the northems or to Balon anyway, and reconizing Balon would be the same of giving him half of the kingdom. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

It's my bad if I misunderstood your meaning.

Could be my bad aswell. Im new here and not a native speaker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Karneol said:

Because Tarly, Hightower and Redwyne are (as it looks like) the three most powerful bannermen of the reach. Of course he needs to secure them mire advantages than smaller and less powerful houses

I would put the Rowans in this group as well.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Only two of his bannermen got key positions. Paxter Redwyne who is Mace's BFF, brother-in-law and a blood relation and Randyll Tarly who most people think is about to bite the hand that feeds him. Even when we look at the rewards received after the Battle of Blackwater, the two Houses who reaped the most benefit were Mace Tyrell with Brightwater Keep and Paxter Redwyne who received a 30 year remission of taxes on his wine (the best vintages, I think).

On 3/17/2019 at 4:21 PM, Karneol said:

There is also lord Merryweather, but would you consider them loyal to the Tyrells ?

They were litereally in bed with Cersei Taena also revelead Senelle as a spy and once Cersei was imprisoned they flee from the city.

Could this be the house as a whole or only Taena?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

There is also lord Merryweather, but would you consider them loyal to the Tyrells ?

They were litereally in bed with Cersei Taena also revelead Senelle as a spy and once Cersei was imprisoned they flee from the city.

Could this be the house as a whole or only Taena?

I wouldn't consider them loyal to the Tyrells. But at the same time, it seems to be coming more from Taena than her husband. She is clearly the one who wears the pants in that relationship. She saw an opportunity advance her family and she took it. Taena knows every sordid detail about the things that Cersei has plotted and done to bring Margy down, so it should be interesting to see if she tries to buy her way back into the Tyrells good graces that way or if she stays out of it altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2019 at 10:03 PM, Arthur Peres said:

There is also lord Merryweather, but would you consider them loyal to the Tyrells ?

They were litereally in bed with Cersei Taena also revelead Senelle as a spy and once Cersei was imprisoned they flee from the city.

Could this be the house as a whole or only Taena?

I think its only Taena.

We dont see that much of House Merryweather other than the couple and Orton is just complety incompetent.

On 3/18/2019 at 10:03 PM, Arthur Peres said:

They were litereally in bed with Cersei Taena also revelead Senelle as a spy and once Cersei was imprisoned they flee from the city.

I always felt around Taena as a double agent. IMO she probably told Margaery about Kettleblacks seduction attempts. But I dont know if this is just for having a safe place or court or if this is a egoistic struggle for power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×