Shadows Babies and Others

[Black Dragons]

A Shadow is made when an object is opaque (Doesn't) let light through the son or the source of light shines on the object creating a shadow. The Red Woman makes shadow by having essence of the person (Stannis and Davos) She ask Davos to make a Shadow baby with her but he said no.  The Bloodstone Emperor worship a black shine stone that came out space. Others are made from ice, Ice is made by water that is solid state it can appear as opaque state.  There is connection there please some one explain it?.

[chrisdaw]

It is nothing to do with the Black Oily Stone, that is Euron's story, but Stannis will become an Ice dragon. The symbolic angle GRRM is coming at it is this, Melisandre weakens his soul by shadow casting him, and so his soul casts weak shadows. The Ice Dragon's wings are ice and will drape Westeros below it in queer, thin, weak shadows, or in a way no shadow.

Quote

"Is the brave Ser Onions so frightened of a passing shadow? Take heart, then. Shadows only live when given birth by light, and the king's fires burn so low I dare not draw off any more to make another son. It might well kill him."

Quote

The carved chest that she had brought across the narrow sea was more than three-quarters empty now. And while Melisandre had the knowledge to make more powders, she lacked many rare ingredients. My spells should suffice. She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture was more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them. With such sorceries at her command, she should soon have no more need of the feeble tricks of alchemists and pyromancers.

Quote

"Or you might have joined your strength to his to bring down the Lannisters," Davos protested. "Why not that? If she saw two futures, well . . . both cannot be true."

King Stannis pointed a finger. "There you err, Onion Knight. Some lights cast more than one shadow. Stand before the nightfire and you'll see for yourself. The flames shift and dance, never still. The shadows grow tall and short, and every man casts a dozen. Some are fainter than others, that's all. Well, men cast their shadows across the future as well. One shadow or many. Melisandre sees them all."

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"Every man who walks the earth casts a shadow on the world. Some are thin and weak, others long and dark. You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall."

He burns Shireen and thus has the heart of winter. He casts weak to no shadows. He has blue eyes. Ice Dragon. The final big bad Dany will have to slay.

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Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

That one.

 

[Clegane'sPup]

4 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

A Shadow is made when an object is opaque (Doesn't) let light through the son or the source of light shines on the object creating a shadow.

Does the above take into the consideration below?

A Game of Thrones - Jon I    And with that he [Tyrion] turned and sauntered back into the feast, whistling a tune. When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king./

4 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

The Red Woman makes shadow by having essence of the person (Stannis and Davos) She ask Davos to make a Shadow baby with her but he said no. 

Mel's hokey pokey spells bring forth a different sort of shadow being.

4 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

The Bloodstone Emperor worship a black shine stone that came out space.

No mention in the five books.

4 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

Others are made from ice, Ice is made by water that is solid state it can appear as opaque state. 

I'm not sure the Others are made from ice.  Yeah, water when frozen turns to ice. 

4 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

There is connection there please some one explain it?.

Are you asking whether there is a connection between ice and shadows?

[Curled Finger]

@Clegane'sPup your description of shadows put me in a mind of Stephen King's Mist.   Good call.  

I think as readers of this complicated story we often confuse Melisandre's talents and faith.   She is a Red Priestess of R'hllor, true.  She's also a Shadow Binder of Asshai.   I don't think they have any thing at all to do with one another.   The shadow babies are magic, pure and simple whereas R'hllor is a religion.   Our girl Mel has all sorts of talent in different areas.   Quaithe is a Shadow Binder for example.  Possibly a telepath or glass candle communicator, too, but I digress.   

In that Shadow Binding is an Asshaii thing, it's safer to chalk that up to the dark magics Asshai is renown for.   Plain old crazy strong magic.  

The opposite of the Lord of Light is The Great Other.   That's a religious dualism thing.   The Great Other could be an ice being, but that would be sort of silly since all the heroes were humanish.   There are lots of different types of people and races and even species in Martin's world.  No reason to think the Others or Great Other aren't sort of humanish rather than truly simple ice monsters.    

Honestly I don't think there is a connection with ice and shadows.   The descriptions of the shadow babies have nothing in common with the descriptions of the Others.  The Others won't even venture forth during the day to make a shadow.   

 

[Lollygag]

Not sure if this is what you're talking about but here's my scattered thoughts right now:

Based on VS drinking the light and working from there, Asshai shows us that the light is dim. There's glowy fish that no one eats and glowy ghost grass which is also inedible. But both are connected to food all the same. Maybe whatever goes on in Asshai actually consumes light. Interesting that dragons can only eat blackened food - they take the light from what they eat. 

Conversely, the Others are light everything. Do they likewise consume dark leaving light? Does this create a sort of yin yang situation where one overeating feeds the other? Wonder if Asshai knocked stuff out of whack. Can't overlook how Othery the following is:

AGOT Daenerys III

Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end."

I dunno. Seems like there's a relationship here but I can't quite put it together. Think you've picked up on something though. 

 

[Black Dragons]

People in the GRRM books he writes that Others can appear as white shadows and  The Red Women is making shadows babies I believe that someone said that they are connected I was ask HOW?

[Black Dragons]

11 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

@Clegane'sPup your description of shadows put me in a mind of Stephen King's Mist.   Good call.  

I think as readers of this complicated story we often confuse Melisandre's talents and faith.   She is a Red Priestess of R'hllor, true.  She's also a Shadow Binder of Asshai.   I don't think they have any thing at all to do with one another.   The shadow babies are magic, pure and simple whereas R'hllor is a religion.   Our girl Mel has all sorts of talent in different areas.   Quaithe is a Shadow Binder for example.  Possibly a telepath or glass candle communicator, too, but I digress.   

In that Shadow Binding is an Asshaii thing, it's safer to chalk that up to the dark magics Asshai is renown for.   Plain old crazy strong magic.  

The opposite of the Lord of Light is The Great Other.   That's a religious dualism thing.   The Great Other could be an ice being, but that would be sort of silly since all the heroes were humanish.   There are lots of different types of people and races and even species in Martin's world.  No reason to think the Others or Great Other aren't sort of humanish rather than truly simple ice monsters.    

Honestly I don't think there is a connection with ice and shadows.   The descriptions of the shadow babies have nothing in common with the descriptions of the Others.  The Others won't even venture forth during the day to make a shadow.   

 

The Free Folks said that the other appear as White Shadows when coming to get them!.

[Black Dragons]

16 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Does the above take into the consideration below?

A Game of Thrones - Jon I    And with that he [Tyrion] turned and sauntered back into the feast, whistling a tune. When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king./

Mel's hokey pokey spells bring forth a different sort of shadow being.

No mention in the five books.

I'm not sure the Others are made from ice.  Yeah, water when frozen turns to ice. 

Are you asking whether there is a connection between ice and shadows?

I read that Blood Stone Emperor is know worship the Black Oily Stone.   This is theory how I think the Shadows babies and White Shadows/Others are link in the mother stomach when a twins are created the egg divide into two they are identity twins with the same mother and father. When two eggs are release and fertilized by two sperm they are fraternal twins. Maybe one egg that create a shadow babies were created by different God like person/Light and the other egg was fertilized by Cold God during the days of Great Empire.

[The Commentator]

18 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.

It doesn't mean he'll be king.  It just means he will have the stature of a king.  

[The Commentator]

14 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end."

It is a tale.  Factor in major exaggeration and spinning.  Asshai is like the ground zero of a radioactive fallout.  

23 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

A Shadow is made when an object is opaque (Doesn't) let light through the son or the source of light shines on the object creating a shadow. The Red Woman makes shadow by having essence of the person (Stannis and Davos) She ask Davos to make a Shadow baby with her but he said no.  The Bloodstone Emperor worship a black shine stone that came out space. Others are made from ice, Ice is made by water that is solid state it can appear as opaque state.  There is connection there please some one explain it?.

A shadow is created when something is blocking the light.  The something can be the real thing and the shadow is a copy.  Stannis was the real thing in that ritual.  The shadow is the copy.  Mellisandre was the shadowbinder who bound the copy to do her bidding.  There is a correlation in the methodology.  The Others appear when the light is blocked.  They bind the dead to do their bidding.  The dead are a pale shadow of the living.  The Others use skin changing to accomplish this.  Mellisandre uses what kind of control mechanism?

[Clegane'sPup]

48 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

It doesn't mean he'll be king.  It just means he will have the stature of a king.  

I did not mean to insinuate Tyrion will become a King. Sometimes I do not articulate as well as I would like. Depending on the time of day and the position of the sun a person or thing casts a long shadow. Another way to try to communicate the thought is take a camping trip into the wilderness that has no street lights and view the shadows cast by a full moon or camp fire.

What I was trying to say is that martin uses words to convey multiple dictionary and thesaurus references.

As in martin uses many terms for the same thing. The Others are named white walker, cold gods, cold ones, shadows --- depending upon which character is doing the talking.

The Others are also described by martin using the word shadow. Which is different that Mel's shadow babies.

A Game of Thrones - Prologue    A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took./

Yet, when Sam killed Puddles, Puddles (Other) was not a shadow.

A Storm of Swords - Samwell I     When he opened his eyes the Other's armor was running down its legs in rivulets as pale blue blood hissed and steamed around the black dragonglass dagger in its throat. It reached down with two bone-white hands to pull out the knife, but where its fingers touched the obsidian they smoked.     Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger remained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating. Grenn bent to scoop it up and flung it down again at once. "Mother, that's cold."/