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Robert and Maester Aemon


anjulibai

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A thought occurred to me as I was reading something about Robert wanting to kill all the surviving Targaryens - why didn't he kill Maester Aemon? We know Robert hated all Targaryens and wanted them dead. He was perfectly fine killing the Targaryen children, so why would he demur from killing an old man? 

I see two possibilities:

1) Robert didn't want to piss off the Night's Watch and the North with it.

2) Robert (and most of Westeros) had no idea Aemon Targaryen still was alive. Jon certainly seemed surprised upon realizing who Maester Aemon was. The Citadel would surely have known, but perhaps everyone had forgotten about him. 

Thoughts? Other possibities? 

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I think Aemon mentions he and Rhaegar were in regular correspondence when he was still alive, no? Jon may not have been told Aemon was on the Wall, but I'm sure the Targaryens, and thus King's Landing, were at least aware at the time that he was still up there. 

I think Robert probably didn't see the value in killing Aemon. He was sworn to the Watch, he wasn't politically relevant, and he was too old to become so. There's no use in marching all the way to the Wall, and potentially starting another war to do so, just to get one old man. 

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6 hours ago, anjulibai said:

He was perfectly fine killing the Targaryen children, so why would he demur from killing an old man? 

Dany and Viserys are threats to his reign, especially so close to the Rebellion. Aemon poses no political threat as a sworn member of the nights watch and very very old. 

I also don't think it's very well known that he was there. Considering how old he was, most people probably considered him to be dead already. Most of the South pay no mind to the NW, even most of the small council.

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Numerous reasons the main one being why would he? Aemon is VERY old and is bound my honour and duty to the Nightswatch where he already gave up his claim to the throne. 

Also Ned wouldnt allow Robert to do such a thing so Robert would have to fight the NW and the North for killing an old man who has NO claim whats so ever to Roberts throne. 

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8 hours ago, anjulibai said:

A thought occurred to me as I was reading something about Robert wanting to kill all the surviving Targaryens - why didn't he kill Maester Aemon? We know Robert hated all Targaryens and wanted them dead. He was perfectly fine killing the Targaryen children, so why would he demur from killing an old man? 

I see two possibilities:

1) Robert didn't want to piss off the Night's Watch and the North with it.

2) Robert (and most of Westeros) had no idea Aemon Targaryen still was alive. Jon certainly seemed surprised upon realizing who Maester Aemon was. The Citadel would surely have known, but perhaps everyone had forgotten about him. 

Thoughts? Other possibities? 

@anjulibai

Aemon went to the Wall nearly 30 years before Robert was born, and was about 85 years old by the time Robert won the crown. He was also sworn to both the Citadel and the Night's Watch.

If Robert knew who Aemon was, and knew he was still alive at the Wall, he had no reason to consider him a threat to his newly won throne, and no reason to bother with him at the Wall.

But even if Robert knew or found out that Aemon was still alive, and even if he would have wanted to kill Aemon, Jon was able to convince Robert to leave the Viserys and Daenerys be in exile, and they were a much greater threat than Aemon.

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Aemon was very very old for westerosi standards. It would be more likely for him to die the natural way till Robert or his envoy reach him than to get actually executed.

This likelyhood for a natural death would with his maester and NW vow make him not very usefull for a targaryen counterrevolution

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  1. He's a member of the Night's Watch.
  2. He's an old, blind man. I would say he's too old to produce an heir, but then there's Walder Frey.  xD
  3. Killing a man of the Night's Watch would probably just piss off Ned, which isn't something Robert would want to do. 
  4. As you said, not alot of people know he's alive. 
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1 hour ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:
  1. He's a member of the Night's Watch.
  2. He's an old, blind man. I would say he's too old to produce an heir, but then there's Walder Frey.  xD
  3. Killing a man of the Night's Watch would probably just piss off Ned, which isn't something Robert would want to do. 
  4. As you said, not alot of people know he's alive. 

 

Agree.

Yeah I could def see Ned getting his hackles up over that one.

 

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Quote

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V

"He has taken the black, sire," Maester Aemon pointed out.

"I am well aware of that," the king [Stannis] said. "I am aware of more than you know, Aemon Targaryen."

The old man inclined his head. "I am only Aemon, sire. We give up our House names when we forge our maester's chains."

 

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Whatever claims Aemon had to the throne went down the hole in the Outhouse as soon as he took his vows.  The vows are final and there is no release.  Aemon could never ever play politics again.  His life belonged to the watch and there is no out clause in this contract.  No lawyering can get him out of those vows.  Therefore, he was no longer a threat.  

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Not only is Aemon old and sworn to the NW and Citadel, where he has forfeited his claims.  He has no ability to threaten Robert.  He does not have any means to raise an army and pose a threat.  

Even though he had been keeping tabs on Viserys and Dany, We do not know of any real attempts on their lives until Dany married Drogo, and thus had access to an army

 

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23 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Whatever claims Aemon had to the throne went down the hole in the Outhouse as soon as he took his vows.  The vows are final and there is no release.  Aemon could never ever play politics again.  His life belonged to the watch and there is no out clause in this contract.  No lawyering can get him out of those vows.  Therefore, he was no longer a threat.  

The Great Council of 233 seriously (but quietly) proposed to simply overrule Aemon´s vows. That was stopped by his refusal. The Aemon party was not interested in fighting for a ruler actively refusing to rule.

A potential Aemon party post-283 would deal with pissing off everyone whose enemies are packed off to Wall - Citadel is not used as actively to dispose of enemies and criminals - and Aemon even if cooperative in being fed up with his vows might have difficulties fathering heirs past 80+. So Aemon is simply not a particularly useful flag to a malcontent.

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On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 8:50 PM, anjulibai said:

A thought occurred to me as I was reading something about Robert wanting to kill all the surviving Targaryens - why didn't he kill Maester Aemon? We know Robert hated all Targaryens and wanted them dead. He was perfectly fine killing the Targaryen children, so why would he demur from killing an old man? 

I see two possibilities:

1) Robert didn't want to piss off the Night's Watch and the North with it.

2) Robert (and most of Westeros) had no idea Aemon Targaryen still was alive. Jon certainly seemed surprised upon realizing who Maester Aemon was. The Citadel would surely have known, but perhaps everyone had forgotten about him. 

Thoughts? Other possibities? 

 

1) The NW has nothing to do with it. Maester Aemon is sworn to the Citadel. The Wall is just his assignment. He is not part of the NW (except in sprit). You cannot be sworn to two lifelong orders. He is there to serve the LC's interests. As seen in the quote provided by Jô Maltese above, Aemon identifies with the Citadel while claiming the NW vows for another's validation. The Wall is Aemon's assignment by request. He wasn't sent there for punishment. The Citadel wouldn't do that to punish a maester. They punish them by taking their chains, like with Qyburn. The interested parties at the time saw the wisdom of sending Aemon to a position that would keep him out of the way and out of trouble.

2) It is obvious that some people are aware of Aemon's bloodline (Stannis for one, probably through Mel), but Robert and others probably just forgot about him or felt that his position at the Wall and his vows to the Citadel, combined with his age and infirmity, were enough to forestall any coup attempts.

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On 3/12/2019 at 2:56 PM, Three-Fingered Pete said:

 

1) The NW has nothing to do with it. Maester Aemon is sworn to the Citadel. The Wall is just his assignment. He is not part of the NW (except in sprit). You cannot be sworn to two lifelong orders. He is there to serve the LC's interests. As seen in the quote provided by Jô Maltese above, Aemon identifies with the Citadel while claiming the NW vows for another's validation. The Wall is Aemon's assignment by request. He wasn't sent there for punishment. The Citadel wouldn't do that to punish a maester. They punish them by taking their chains, like with Qyburn. The interested parties at the time saw the wisdom of sending Aemon to a position that would keep him out of the way and out of trouble.

2) It is obvious that some people are aware of Aemon's bloodline (Stannis for one, probably through Mel), but Robert and others probably just forgot about him or felt that his position at the Wall and his vows to the Citadel, combined with his age and infirmity, were enough to forestall any coup attempts.

Actually, Aemon Targaryan did not join the Night's Watch until after the Great Council of 223. When he refused the throne, he made it permanent by joining the Watch. He isn't posted there, like it's a long-term assignment from the Citadel.  He's a sworn brother of the Night's Watch.

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To answer the OP, I think the simplicity of Robert's character is the answer.  Maester Aemon is a member of the Night's Watch, the Night's Watch serves for life. For Robert, it's that simple. Robert likely doesn't know about Aemon, and even if he did, he wouldn't care.

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20 minutes ago, LindsayLohan said:

To answer the OP, I think the simplicity of Robert's character is the answer.  Maester Aemon is a member of the Night's Watch, the Night's Watch serves for life. For Robert, it's that simple. Robert likely doesn't know about Aemon, and even if he did, he wouldn't care.

Stannis knew, so I guess Robert knew too, but as you said, Robert was simple.  Also righteous/honorable (to some extent). He would not kill somebody who does not pose, by his own judgement, a real threat.

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28 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Wait, Aemon was only sworn to the Citadel? I thought he was also sworn to the Night's Watch. That's why he went up there in the first place and didn't stay where ever had been before. 

 

That's my take on it. You can't serve two lifelong orders at the same time. The maester is assigned to the LC for life or until dismissed and replaced, just like any other lord. In that way they are part of the NW, just like Maester Luwin was part of the Stark family and other maesters theirs. Otherwise, how could Jon justify sending Aemon away? If he is part of the Watch, his place is at the Wall until he dies, even if he isn't the attending maester anymore. AFAIK only a couple of people even know the real reason Aemon was dismissed.

I could be wrong of course. Sam has taken his NW vows and was sent to forge his chain. We will have to see if GRRM has a comment on this dual orders of servitude issue.

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9 hours ago, Three-Fingered Pete said:

 

That's my take on it. You can't serve two lifelong orders at the same time. The maester is assigned to the LC for life or until dismissed and replaced, just like any other lord. In that way they are part of the NW, just like Maester Luwin was part of the Stark family and other maesters theirs. Otherwise, how could Jon justify sending Aemon away? If he is part of the Watch, his place is at the Wall until he dies, even if he isn't the attending maester anymore. AFAIK only a couple of people even know the real reason Aemon was dismissed.

I could be wrong of course. Sam has taken his NW vows and was sent to forge his chain. We will have to see if GRRM has a comment on this dual orders of servitude issue.

I don’t know that I would agree. As long as the vows don’t come into conflict I see no reason you couldn’t serve both. Obviously KG/NW wouldn’t work, but Maesters and NW? Don’t s see any conflict there. 

Though I would question whether Maesters MUST swear NW vows or if it’s optional

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52 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I don’t know that I would agree. As long as the vows don’t come into conflict I see no reason you couldn’t serve both. Obviously KG/NW wouldn’t work, but Maesters and NW? Don’t s see any conflict there. 

Though I would question whether Maesters MUST swear NW vows or if it’s optional

 

In theory, I agree, but in practice? Vows may not come into conflict, but actions and agendas might. What if your LC orders you to do something that violates your oath to the Citadel? What if an unscrupulous archmaester wants you to spy on your LC? Vows are good to keep honest people in line, but as we've seen, some individuals will not adhere to their principles when it suits them.

Septons would seem to fall into the same conundrum. Where does their ultimate loyalty lie? If the High Sparrow ordered Septon Cellador back to KL because he decided that the NW was corrupt and irredeemable and deserved to wither and die, would Cellador be obliged to obey, sight his NW vows as a shield to disobey, or have to make a real moral choice where his loyalties lie and suffer the consequences?

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